Help request: Lake County, Gurnee, StarCom21, MOT 800 PRO-96, PRO-97

[hdesign]

Hello,

For the longest time, I was using the PRO-97 and listening to the Gurnee Police/Fire/EMS
with great success. One day, the radio traffic started to become less and less. I figured
that Gurnee had switched to digital and I would need to upgrade to the PRO-96.

As of a few days ago, I picked up the PRO-96 and found a new world of radio traffic to
monitor but the Gurnee area (even with a side by side PRO-96 and PRO-97 operating
together) is still received the same.

I have the V1.4 loaded on this PRO-96 and I'm confused. Most of the same traffic from
Gurnee Police/Fire is running on the following frequency listings:

Gurnee 860.26250 CT 127.3 D
Gurnee 855.63750 CT 127.3 D <- Mostly coming from here
Fire 154.32500 CT 127.3 D

The fire channel is still bad, even with the addition of the better 800 MHz antenna from
anyone on the Fire/EMS channel but the dispatch is clear as I'm right by the tower.

I have learned that Gurnee has applied for Digital but they are now running with a request
to extend their installation, as stated on the FCC website.

Why is it taking so long and if this is now in operation or listed as active, why does it not
sound digital as the StarCom21 does?

I see listings for the Gurnee area to use the following MOT Rx:

NW Dist TRS 855.23750 MOT 0.0
NW Dist TRS 866.46250 MOT 0.0
NW Dist TRS 867.46250 MOT 0.0
NW Dist TRS 867.93750 MOT 0.0

I pulled this from the V-Folders section of the PRO-96 (listed as IL-MI-IN) and it matches
with what is being posted on the RR DB with an exact match.

Why does this cover the StarCom21 listings as stated here:

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=2324

108 Dch Lake (County Simulcast)

855.23750*
866.46250*
867.46250
867.93750*
868.98750

I've selected to use the following talkgroups:

IDNR Regio 01282
Illinois Sta 00000
unid hit o 17103
unid hit o 17092
unid hit o 16385
unid hit o 41268

MOT 3600 CC (Normal)
MOT 9600 CC (Normal)

These are listed in RR DB as (Lake or Waukegan)

Here are my test results for both local listings:

StarCom21 - Illinois -- 700/800 MHz (Statewide P25)
Receiving mostly Chicago and Oak Brook traffic

When I click on the Dch Lake (County Simulcast) listing and it pops the window for the
area coverage, I see it more than covers my area:

Latitude N 39.70718665682654
Logitude W -89.05517578125
Range 225 Miles

All traffic is digital and clear but not relative to my area and especially the Gurnee area.

Lake County Law/Goverment - 800 MHz
Receiving traffic from Gurnee, Waukegan, (up to Russell Road), Island Lake area, etc.

This sounds like the traffic I have been looking for with this area but the signal is mostly
filled with static. I've cleared this up with the 800 MHz antenna for this unit.

Am I missing something? Should I be using different talkgroups for the StarCom21 listings
to hear the new digital for Gurnee?

When I go through the descriptions for the talkgroups, I see "Zones" listed. Which zone
should I be looking for to cover this area and not listen to Oak Brook, Chicago, etc.?

Using Win96 v1.55

Thank you very much!

David

 

[hdesign]

Hi,

One other question please.

I'm noticing this new PRO-96 is now cutting out when PL 127.3 tones come through. No
matter if I use FM or CT for Rx Mode, the tone comes through, the speaker sounds like it is
over modulating (crackling sound) and then the system sticks on a signal. No sound,
flickering in and out and the keypad stops making sounds when keys are pressed. Even
when the key tones are on. Odd.

When I turn the power off, then back on, the system resets and I can hear things again.

I've checked attenuation, global attenuation, squelch and Rx Mode. I've reset the scanner
to defaults by pressing 0, 1, enter after turning the power on, reloaded everything, tried
the stock antenna, extended antenna, 800 MHz antenna... same thing. This only happens
with this PL 127.3 tone and it kills the system.

I've called Radio Shack (RS), they say it's new to them. They gave me the number to RS in
New York for their repair department but it was after hours. I'll have to call tomorrow.
They also told me to go to CARMA and enroll to ask these questions.

Any ideas? Should I assume this scanner is shot or PL 127.3 is making things error out?

Thanks.

 

[N9JIG]

First off, Gurnee PD now uses 855.6375 (127.3 PL) for Dispatch, the old 860.2625 is gone.
154.325 is still used for Fire Dispatch.

As for StarCom21 in the area pop in these freqs as "MOT" and you should be OK:
855.23750, 866.46250, 867.46250, 867.93750, 868.98750. There are some issues with simulcast that cause the APCO25 digital demodulation to flutter, but it isn't as bad as it was a few months ago.

When I get home from work tonight I will try putting these and other channels in a PRO96 with 127.3 and see what happens. I have never heard of this phenomenon before however.

 

[hdesign]

Hi Rich,

Thank you for the reply. It's not bad at all for the digital signal. I'm now programmed with the ISP Elgin data and that works for this area just fine. I'm just having a lot of scratching and hissing with the EDACS for Lake County. I guess that's pretty much standard with the following listings:

Bank 0 Ch 00 0.00000 FM 0.0 D L
Simulcast 866.25000 EDACS 0.0 D
Simulcast 866.30000 EDACS 0.0 D
Simulcast 866.63750 EDACS 0.0 D
Simulcast 866.68750 EDACS 0.0 D
Simulcast 867.12500 EDACS 0.0 D
Simulcast 867.72500 EDACS 0.0 D
Simulcast 867.81250 EDACS 0.0 D
Simulcast 868.56250 EDACS 0.0 D

Park City Po 0097
Park City Po 0098
HP 1 Dispat 0017
HP 2 Dispat 0018
Car to Car 0019

I have others listed for talkgroups but these are the most populated with traffic. My question for this system is, should it be hissing and scratching, popping with a high pitch beep at the end of each communication?

As for Gurnee, I'm noticing a really good signal (almost sounds digital at times) but not all the time. The 127.3 tone yesterday was so loud, I thought the speaker cracked but everything sounds fine today. Would it be possible they can regulate the signal tone in dB when broadcast and they made it sound this way?

In your reply, you stated the following:

"First off, Gurnee PD now uses 855.6375 (127.3 PL) for Dispatch, the old 860.2625 is gone."

In RR, the following come up as Conventional and Digital:

Police Conv 860.26250 CT 127.3
Police Digi 860.26250 CT 127.3

and also:

Police NEW 855.63750 CT 127.3

I have all three loaded. Does this create an issue having duplicates? It says FM in the database but loads or imports at CT with the 127.3 entry for each. If I select the Rx Mode and change it to FM, I think this is where I see the problem taking place. The system begins to have these issues.

I'll contact RS today, see what they have to say and post it here. Maybe they have an answer for us.

One final note. I thought maybe the scanner had this issue of not working because the battery strength was low but this also happens when the unit is plugged in. I hope this helps in some way to omit such a reason.

 

[hdesign]

I just found another issue. The following frequency, without any tones caused another problem with the scanner:

Police NEW 855.63750 CT 127.3

The dispatch was talking in and out as normal and the next broadcast I heard about three words and the audio cut out. The frequency was still displaying on and off as someone was talking and replying but no sound at all.

I think this is the problem area with the digital decoding.

Would you agree?

I turned the power off, back on and everything is now fine.

 

[hdesign]

Here's what the 'tech' at RS New York said:

"I don't know what the problem could be. Don't use CT, use FM only for the PRO-96. -- Ah, just send it in. I'm busy with other things right now."

(Comments kept to self.)

 

[N9JIG]

Can't be a problem with digital decoding, the channel is analog. If it were digital and you had it programmed with PL you wouldn't hear anything, since digital does not use PL.

Since there are no other users really close to here on that freq, try programming it just as FM instead of CT.

I just found another issue. The following frequency, without any tones caused another problem with the scanner:

Police NEW 855.63750 CT 127.3

The dispatch was talking in and out as normal and the next broadcast I heard about three words and the audio cut out. The frequency was still displaying on and off as someone was talking and replying but no sound at all.

I think this is the problem area with the digital decoding.

Would you agree?

I turned the power off, back on and everything is now fine.

 

[hdesign]

Thanks for your reply.

 

[Astro25]

GPD now has XTS2500s issued (model 2s), as well as some of the original MT2000s floating around.

They do have 860.2625 simplex in their radios as a tac channel I believe, as well as a few other "random" 800 frequencies, and the I-TAC/I-CALL channels.

 

[Astro25]

Oh and BTW, Waukegan PD is 470.3125, PL 97.4, and fire is 154.415, PL 103.5

We've also got the XTS2500s, as well as older HT1000s floating around. Might be the same comm. company doing stuff.

 

[hdesign]

Hi Astro25. Thanks for the input.

 

[hdesign]

ok I think I found the problem.

 

[chgomonitor]

Re: Help Issues

Seems like a good deal of confusion going on here, though I'm not a Pro-96 user.

These are all different systems.

Gurnee PD is conventional, analog 800 MHz repeater on 855.6375. You should not be hearing all this clipping and distortion, assuming you have it programmed correctly. If you are very close to the transmitter site it's possible the scanner is getting overloaded, you might try the attenuator or less antenna. Agencies modify their existing licenses to include digital for many different reasons, but most commonly to anticipate the coming "narrowband" requirements. They may not ever actually make the switch to digital modulation, but you'll hear it when they do, LOL.

The Lake County EDACS system is an entirely different system, used primarily by Lake County. Be sure you have the channels programmed in the correct LCN# order and the system set to EDACS. It's an analog 800 MHz trunked radio system, but not a Motorola system. I find the system coverage and overall performance to be pretty poor on the edges of or from just outside of Lake county. An 800 Mhz gain or outside antenna may help. Check your radio manual for how to program an EDACS 800 MHz system.

The Starcom system is a complex, multi-site, statewide system, used by a variety of users. You won't hear Gurnee PD there very often if at all. The sites are all Motorola digital TRS's. Depending on many factors, the modulation you'll hear can sometimes be choppy. The primary users are Illinois State Police. Listening to Starcom is an art unto itself, it's a complex system - be sure you understand what it is you are trying to listen to. I'd suggest our system profile:

http://www.carmachicago.com/profiles/StarCom21.pdf

Base channels, Base Frequencies and Offsets are only used on VHF and UHF trunked systems, not on 800 / 900 MHz trunked systems.

As you've apparently discovered, it is possible via using software, to really muck up the internal radio settings. The extended receive range features of Win96 enable you to enter some freqs outside of the normal range of the radio, such as UHF Milair 225-400. Performance of the radio in these bands is generally pretty poor, however - as it wasn't designed to receive there in the first place. Using the feature, however, should not impact reception or radio features on "normal" frequencies or systems.

Using software to make other adjustments such as bandwidth, steps, modulation, etc CAN impact how your radios "hears" and tracks trunked systems and digital modulation. Know what you are doing before making these types of adjustments, make them experimentally and incrementally as tests and be sure you know how to set them back to default settings.

I have to say, though, that I don't like this business of keypad lockups, flashing displays, erratic key pad presses and beeps, loud whines, etc. If your radio is doing this on conventional, known good local systems without making any exotic modifications to the radio via software, then I'd tend to believe that what you have there is one bad, malfunctioning radio. I'd get a replacement. The Pro-96 is a pretty good radio overall and I know dozens of very satisfied users.

I'd suggest bringing it to a CARMA meeting or Friday nighter and having some of our Pro-96 owners take a peek at it.

Happy Scanning! - Ted

 

[hdesign]

Ted,

Thank you and I appreciate your taking the time to reply in such great detail.

 

[Astro25]

Hmm, I've never had the overload problem before. I've been at the Gurnee Library (right next to the PD where the repeater is at) with an XTS5k and a Pro-97 before and it was fine; you might want to have your radio checked out. Sounds odd.

 

[hdesign]

Thanks for all your help with this. We'll see what happens with the new one.

 

[hdesign]

Wow!

I guess my first purchase of the PRO-96 was a floor model or someone dropped it because the new one arrived today and it's NOTHING like the old one. Much better reception, and it has a new firmware of v1.5 - I had to upgrade the DSP App from v1.3 to v1.4 and all is well.

There's no blanking out with the keypad, no loss of signal and it decodes much faster than the previous unit.

I don't know what to say about this situation but for all those who gave their input of possible solutions, thank you for your assistance.