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Help understanding how to program a CAP+ system

SpringHill

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Apr 9, 2011
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70
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Spring Hill. TN
Hey all,

Im new to programming on this type of level (using the XPR7550e). Ive played around with HT's and CDM quite extensively through the years, and have played with CP200D's for the last few years but have never really had the drive to learn the cap+ stuff. Now i own a nicer radio and want to learn the ins and outs of programming a singe site. thinking of starting with hotels i visit (I travel a lot for work) or something along those lines to practice the steps in different places with different systems. is there any good guides out there for using RR to program? i guess im confused on voice vs digital and knowing which freqs are what... and seeing the freqs in the system vs clicking the callsign and seeing many more freqs. If anyone wouldnt mind walking me through a system id be really thankful for helping to extend my hobby! TIA!
 

Firebuff880

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Joined
Aug 28, 2006
Messages
694
Location
Boynton Beach, FL
The simple answer is don't do it -

You are not authorized as a user on any of these systems and the XPR family subscriber is not a scanner.

In fact, depending on the system administrator the system may issue a Kill command to your unrecognized device and you will have a brick.
 

SpringHill

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Apr 9, 2011
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Spring Hill. TN
While I appreciate your reply, that is less than helpful. No, I am not authorized to TRANSMIT on these channels. If there is no encryption, there is nothing legally keeping me from listening, scanning or monitoring these frequencies. I fully understand how to set receive only and actually somewhat understand how to program the scan lists when on a receive only channel. People like you are why others are turned off to the hobby. My legal risks (none) are my own. I’m asking to learn. Thanks again.
 

FFPM571

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Nashvillle
The simple answer is don't do it -

You are not authorized as a user on any of these systems and the XPR family subscriber is not a scanner.

In fact, depending on the system administrator the system may issue a Kill command to your unrecognized device and you will have a brick.
Its's obvious you do not know how a Cap+ system works as far as a way to disable a radio.
 

SpringHill

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Apr 9, 2011
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Spring Hill. TN
Its's obvious you do not know how a Cap+ system works as far as a way to disable a radio.
It is quite obvious… as this whole post is me asking for more information on it and how it’s programmed! I do understand radios can be stunned or killed. I understand I put my hardware at risk, at my own risk. I fully understand. I still want to learn how these systems work. If I brick a radio, then I guess I learned the hard way. I don’t know how frequently people are actively monitoring these systems in these hotels. I’ve literally asked an IT/AV guy if I could read his radio and he didn’t care one wink. At the end of the day I’m self taught. 100%. And the only way for me to learn is to do. Especially moving forward with my recent achievement of HAM and GMRS licenses I’d like to know how these systems work on a deeper level, starting with a cap+ single site.


I do apologize if I’ve been short.
 

N1GTL

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Jun 14, 2005
Messages
994
Location
CT
In response to your actual question, you're going to have a hard time trying to do this. You need to program in the talkgroups for the system you want to listen to. Those TGs are decided by whoever designs the system. There is no CSQ setting in mototrbo for a talkgroup if that makes sense. If you're just interested in listening, go with an SDS100. If you want more info, I can go into it for you. I programmed systems like you're talking about for 14 years.
 

SpringHill

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Apr 9, 2011
Messages
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Spring Hill. TN
In response to your actual question, you're going to have a hard time trying to do this. You need to program in the talkgroups for the system you want to listen to. Those TGs are decided by whoever designs the system. There is no CSQ setting in mototrbo for a talkgroup if that makes sense. If you're just interested in listening, go with an SDS100. If you want more info, I can go into it for you. I programmed systems like you're talking about for 14 years.
Yeah, I do understand it’s going to be a little bit of a curve, but I truly interested in the systems and programming them. I have a handy BCT436hp that I’ve had in my inventory for years that I’ve learned a lot on. I haven’t played with everything it has to offer but I have used it to monitor systems like this. Even finding freqs and color codes to unlisted systems and such. It’s all a little knowledge gained here and there. I use M radios for my work, which is a lot of the time in different hotel properties across the US. Primarily I want to learn these systems. Secondarily I’d like to monitor them from the radio I already have to carry.

Thank you for your time!
 

dickie757

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Apr 25, 2017
Messages
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Out of range
Let's learn together. I have a codeplug from my work radio, a XPR 5350e. I will change all of the data that makes it work on our system, and send it to you. Ours is a multi site, but not sure if/how the sites are linked. I will find out more today. Shatty thing is....we dont use the system except for testing. I have never talked to any coworkers on it.
 

SpringHill

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Spring Hill. TN
Let's learn together. I have a codeplug from my work radio, a XPR 5350e. I will change all of the data that makes it work on our system, and send it to you. Ours is a multi site, but not sure if/how the sites are linked. I will find out more today. Shatty thing is....we dont use the system except for testing. I have never talked to any coworkers on it.
That sounds amazing! A codeplug programmed for this type of system would be helpful for reverse engineering. Side note, you guys have a whole linked system that is never in use!?
 

dickie757

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Apr 25, 2017
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After really looking at the CP, it is just multiple sites programmed with their own frequencies, but sharing talkgroup contacts. There are separate freqs for data and voice, per site. And of course, the uplink freq for duplex operation.

Not knowing much about Cap+, but knowing just enough, it seems like our system is stupid simple, and not even close to the potential of a mildly sophisticated setup. I am going to rescind my offer to send it to you.

I would like to hear from @N1GTL about it, though.

For example, our system has two pair of freqs per site, four sites, one for voice and one for data, and 5 TGs ; what can be done on that site that cant be done on a regular MotoTRBO repeater site? I have asked the old timer techs, but they dont know/remember much about it, as a different shop put it together...
 

SpringHill

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Apr 9, 2011
Messages
70
Location
Spring Hill. TN
After really looking at the CP, it is just multiple sites programmed with their own frequencies, but sharing talkgroup contacts. There are separate freqs for data and voice, per site. And of course, the uplink freq for duplex operation.

Not knowing much about Cap+, but knowing just enough, it seems like our system is stupid simple, and not even close to the potential of a mildly sophisticated setup. I am going to rescind my offer to send it to you.

I would like to hear from @N1GTL about it, though.

For example, our system has two pair of freqs per site, four sites, one for voice and one for data, and 5 TGs ; what can be done on that site that cant be done on a regular MotoTRBO repeater site? I have asked the old timer techs, but they dont know/remember much about it, as a different shop put it together...
No worries, I appreciate you anyways! That’s my confusion I guess, is the voice data and control channels. I guess honestly I’ll just need to grab a code plug from one of these hotels, and compare what I see to what RR has in the database, and kinda see what’s what from there. I’ve just been in higher dollar locations the last few weeks and they’re a little more stringent against losing a radio than some of the mid tier properties. I’m on a resort property right now but I’m going to ask the AV guy later if he minds if I read his radio. Wish me luck lol.
 

dickie757

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We can still keep this thread alive. I occasionally go to the shop that created the system, so I can get more info that way. Best of luck reading the radio!
 

FFPM571

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There is no control channel on cap+ its a channel pool it can use any one of them Each repeater has one frequency with 2 time slots. on Linked Cap+ Each site is linked by a modem and using the Internet and an IP address
 

SpringHill

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There is no control channel on cap+ its a channel pool it can use any one of them Each repeater has one frequency with 2 time slots. on Linked Cap+ Each site is linked by a modem and using the Internet and an IP address
Thank you for the info! So the channel pool for a cap single site would only contain 2 freqs?
 

dickie757

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Apr 25, 2017
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Our system's voice channel freqs dont have timeslots, but the data channel freqs do...I notice this from the channel pool under zone

But I then created a trbo channel that has slots available...I need to go to Moto school
 

KG4INW

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Try and see if you can find a copy of the MOTOTRBO System Planner (current version is 6880309T12-ZE). It's nearly 700 pages long and should have everything you've ever wanted to know!
 

dickie757

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Apr 25, 2017
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I'm in line to get official Moto education, but when I'm handed radios to mess around with, and the only stipulation is ...."keep it legal" I get inquisitive real quick.

My company's license search on FCC comes back with over ten pages of results, all active, too. Just searchung the itinerant freqs is daunting, never mind the internal fleet vs customer subscriber freqs, FB1 vs FB6
 

SpringHill

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Apr 9, 2011
Messages
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Spring Hill. TN
Our system's voice channel freqs dont have timeslots, but the data channel freqs do...I notice this from the channel pool under zone

But I then created a trbo channel that has slots available...I need to go to Moto school
what would tell you which is which? data vs voice
 

dickie757

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Apr 25, 2017
Messages
408
Location
Out of range
The entry in the CP in the channel pool. I have to talk to someone that knows the system so I can get a grasp at what it can do. The screen on our truck radios only displays channel number, so something must get connected to the deck for extended functions to work. I thought the data channels might have been tower to tower, but they dont line up.
 
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