Help us progress the service tagging of frequency and talkgroup data

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blantonl

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Starting the weekend of May 31st 2008, all registered users of RadioReference.com will be able to tag frequencies and talkgroups that do not have a tags assigned with the service tags listed at http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Tags. A special will be placed next to each frequency subcategory and talkgroup category description when service tags are available for assignment. Clicking that icon will take the registered user to the service tagging interface.

See the RadioReference Blog Entry for more details.
 

Highpockets

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blantonl said:
Starting the weekend of May 31st 2008, all registered users of RadioReference.com will be able to tag frequencies and talkgroups that do not have a tags assigned with the service tags listed at http://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Tags. A special will be placed next to each frequency subcategory and talkgroup category description when service tags are available for assignment. Clicking that icon will take the registered user to the service tagging interface.

See the RadioReference Blog Entry for more details.
Sorry to ask, but, will or can there be a tag for conventional frequencies to let the users know if they are apco25 E (encrypted) D (digital) or M (Mixed D & E) you can now do it with trunked but not conventional. Thank you for talking the time to read this, either way you decide, the improvements have been excellent, great jbo!
 

blantonl

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Steve, that is a great point... let me have a discussion with the database administration staff and review what attributes we have in place to see how we might make some changes.

Thanks!
 

jlanfn

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Just to confirm...channels would be labeled strictly based on how they are actually used, not necessarily by their technical name, right? I know of many channels on a local system I monitor that someone who does not monitor them often could incorrectly tag, because they made assumptions about its use based upon the technical name of the channel. For example, a channel is officially named a "tac" channel when it is used as a "talk" channel.

Also, what tag would be appropriate for law enforcement "records/secondary dispatch" channels? This wasn't clear from the wiki.
 
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Grog

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A good way for the knowledgeable users to add good info without bogging down the admins, just waiting for it to start :D
 

SCPD

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Another question

What if a particular frequency or tak group fits several tags. can they all be added??. In other words can more than 1 tag be added to a particular TG etc??
 

MtnBiker2005

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Just wanted to let everyone know!

1.) You only get 1 chance to pick the right TAG (Can't go back and change it to another tag) :(
2.) Once you click on the 'Tag List' Can't leave that page and go read another Browser TAB to look over the TAG naming list! :(
3.) If you are in tag edit mode and don't pick anything and leave the TAG page it will be 'blanked tag.' Can't go back and edit the tag anymore :(
 

wise871

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Three of the counties in my area have jails run by the Sheriff's Department. The have there own internal frequencies. I can't figure out which tag to list them under since there is no Law-Jail in the categories.
 

bezking

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Lindsay-
There should be a confirmation, instead of just firing it off when a dropdown option is selected; I just mistagged 4 frequencies (by accident) and now the DB admins have more work...
 
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SCPD

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I know you must be trying to limit the number of possible tags given to a frequency. I'm having some difficulty fitting many of the frequencies I am familiar with into the categories you have listed. I'm trying to fit square pegs into round holes and the round pegs are often falling through square holes and out of sight. Here are my observations on the listed categories.

The federal government, specifically the natural resource management and wildland fire management agencies categorize many of their frequencies into command, tactical, and logistical. Command nets are reserved for communications between division/group supervisors, branch directors, the operations chief, and the incident commander. Command nets usually have repeaters employed. Command is also used between the incident and the local area dispatcher. Tactical nets are for individual resources to communicate with each other and with and their supervisor, whether that be a strike team leader, a division/group supervisor, or the operations chief if the incident is not large enough to divide into divisions and/or groups yet. Tactical nets use simplex. Logistical nets are established to provide communications for such things as incident check-in, food, supply, vehicle maintenance, and between people at the incident base. Logistical nets can utilize repeaters or simplex. This is the way the well known National Interagency Incident Radio Support Cache is organized. The frequencies are perhaps better known as the "NIFC Frequencies" referring to the National Interagency Fire Center. This radio system is often used for nationally significant incidents such as hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, and even the conventions of the two major political parties.

Many radio systems of state and local agencies are being organized in a similar fashion. Agencies are installing repeater networks to be used for command and installing simplex frequencies for tactical purposes. Often these nets are only for use on large incidents which overwhelm the day to day dispatch and tactical nets. They are quite often multi-functional in nature with law enforcement, fire, EMS, animal control, roads, and administrative functions using them. Thus they do not fit any of the "multi" tags as they involve more than LE, Fire, and EMS. The multi tags do not reflect the command function either. The closest tag to the command function is dispatch, either fire or law enforcement, or multi, however this does not reflect the command function that many frequencies and networks are reserved for. I would suggest adding law enforcement, fire, EMS, and multi command tags.

In the area of natural resource management we are seeing more and more jurisdictions splitting their radio systems into separate nets. In the past a National Park or National Forest had one net and it was called "Park Net" or "Forest Net." We are now seeing them split these along functional lines so that you have law enforcement, fire, maintenance, administration split into separate nets, all with repeater systems for each or perhaps fire and law enforcement on a net called the "Emergency" net and everyone else on an "Admin" net. In a few of the very largest and busiest National Parks that are exclusive federal jurisdictions, where the National Park Service provides all EMS services in the park, there is even a EMS net in that park. In the past I've seen these nets tagged with "Forestry Operations" or "Rangers" and these do not reflect the nature of the work done by these agencies or the functions of the listed frequencies. I would guess we will have to use the multi dispatch and tac categories for these agencies, but I would rather see an admin category. Many state natural resource agencies have split up their radio systems and removed law enforcement from all their other functions, giving LE a frequency of their own. I have observed, at the federal level, that following the narrow band mandate of 2005, that agencies have split up their over congested "one size fits all" networks into functional networks due to the increased number of frequencies available. The same will probably happen when state and local agencies are subject to narrow banding in 2013.

The federal tag for all federal government operations does not reflect the functions of natural resource agencies at the federal level and is so broad as to be nearly useless. When I'm looking for frequencies I don't want to lump the Veterans Administration with the Border Patrol along with National Parks and National Forests. These are too different to lump into one broad category.

Many city and county governments establish networks for public works (roads, water, and sewers) and for all other functions (building inspectors, zoning and code enforcement, parks, personnel, IT, animal control, facility maintenance, zoos, etc) have a "Admin" or "Administrative" network. In my mind, and certainly in the minds of most people who work either for the government or with it frequently understand that public works is something you get your hands dirty with and is strictly infrastructure related. Administrative implies all the other things local agencies do.

In summary I would suggest the federal government split into law enforcement, fire, and administrative tags. I would like to see the local agency tag of "public works" split into "public works" (roads, sewer, and water) and administrative (all non public works). In the multi category I would suggest adding a "multi command" tag.

In taxonomy (putting plants and animals into categories such a species, genius, class, kingdoms, etc) it is often said that "there are splitters and there are lumpers." The same is true of any system that places things into categories. My suggestions are a compromise between the two.
 

lowboy654

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AlabamaRS said:
What if a particular frequency or tak group fits several tags. can they all be added??. In other words can more than 1 tag be added to a particular TG etc??
One tag for a frequency. If your not sure what the tag should be, then dont add it.
 
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blantonl

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Exsmokey said:
The federal government, specifically the natural resource management and wildland fire management agencies categorize many of their frequencies into command, tactical, and logistical.
They should all be tagged as fire tactical.

Command nets are reserved for communications between division/group supervisors, branch directors, the operations chief, and the incident commander. Command nets usually have repeaters employed. Command is also used between the incident and the local area dispatcher. Tactical nets are for individual resources to communicate with each other and with and their supervisor, whether that be a strike team leader, a division/group supervisor, or the operations chief if the incident is not large enough to divide into divisions and/or groups yet. Tactical nets use simplex. Logistical nets are established to provide communications for such things as incident check-in, food, supply, vehicle maintenance, and between people at the incident base. Logistical nets can utilize repeaters or simplex. This is the way the well known National Interagency Incident Radio Support Cache is organized. The frequencies are perhaps better known as the "NIFC Frequencies" referring to the National Interagency Fire Center. This radio system is often used for nationally significant incidents such as hurricanes, floods, tornadoes, and even the conventions of the two major political parties.
For all of these instances, those would be tagged as Fire Tac

Many radio systems of state and local agencies are being organized in a similar fashion. Agencies are installing repeater networks to be used for command and installing simplex frequencies for tactical purposes. Often these nets are only for use on large incidents which overwhelm the day to day dispatch and tactical nets. They are quite often multi-functional in nature with law enforcement, fire, EMS, animal control, roads, and administrative functions using them. Thus they do not fit any of the "multi" tags as they involve more than LE, Fire, and EMS. The multi tags do not reflect the command function either. The closest tag to the command function is dispatch, either fire or law enforcement, or multi, however this does not reflect the command function that many frequencies and networks are reserved for. I would suggest adding law enforcement, fire, EMS, and multi command tags.
Nope, per the tags that I've added, these fit the mold of xx-Tac tagging at this time.

In the area of natural resource management we are seeing more and more jurisdictions splitting their radio systems into separate nets. In the past a National Park or National Forest had one net and it was called "Park Net" or "Forest Net." We are now seeing them split these along functional lines so that you have law enforcement, fire, maintenance, administration split into separate nets, all with repeater systems for each or perhaps fire and law enforcement on a net called the "Emergency" net and everyone else on an "Admin" net. In a few of the very largest and busiest National Parks that are exclusive federal jurisdictions, where the National Park Service provides all EMS services in the park, there is even a EMS net in that park. In the past I've seen these nets tagged with "Forestry Operations" or "Rangers" and these do not reflect the nature of the work done by these agencies or the functions of the listed frequencies. I would guess we will have to use the multi dispatch and tac categories for these agencies, but I would rather see an admin category. Many state natural resource agencies have split up their radio systems and removed law enforcement from all their other functions, giving LE a frequency of their own. I have observed, at the federal level, that following the narrow band mandate of 2005, that agencies have split up their over congested "one size fits all" networks into functional networks due to the increased number of frequencies available. The same will probably happen when state and local agencies are subject to narrow banding in 2013.
All these fit the mold of either a "talk" or a "tac" function. Admin and supv functions would probably fit the mold more of talk functions.

The federal tag for all federal government operations does not reflect the functions of natural resource agencies at the federal level and is so broad as to be nearly useless. When I'm looking for frequencies I don't want to lump the Veterans Administration with the Border Patrol along with National Parks and National Forests. These are too different to lump into one broad category.
I'm sorry you feel that way, but that's the way it is at this time. We're not differentiating between different agencies. It is a tag, not a description.

Many city and county governments establish networks for public works (roads, water, and sewers) and for all other functions (building inspectors, zoning and code enforcement, parks, personnel, IT, animal control, facility maintenance, zoos, etc) have a "Admin" or "Administrative" network. In my mind, and certainly in the minds of most people who work either for the government or with it frequently understand that public works is something you get your hands dirty with and is strictly infrastructure related. Administrative implies all the other things local agencies do.
ALL of these would be public works per the wiki guidelines.

In summary I would suggest the federal government split into law enforcement, fire, and administrative tags. I would like to see the local agency tag of "public works" split into "public works" (roads, sewer, and water) and administrative (all non public works). In the multi category I would suggest adding a "multi command" tag.
The tags have been well thought out and are set based on the purpose that I am taking forward.

In taxonomy (putting plants and animals into categories such a species, genius, class, kingdoms, etc) it is often said that "there are splitters and there are lumpers." The same is true of any system that places things into categories. My suggestions are a compromise between the two.
For what I have envisioned, we have accomplished just that and we're exactly where I want us to be.

Folks, please understand that the user's of this tagging system will predominantly NOT be active members of this web site who are power users. They will be neophytes, new users to scanners, and non technical folks.

Your Grandmother would tell you "I just want to listen to the Police Department" - or your grandfather might say "How do I program this thing to listen to aircraft"... anything more granular defeats the purpose of the tagging system and makes it too difficult to manage. Think less about how YOU would program a scanner and select things to listen to, and more how someone who doesn't understand radio systems, channel setups, trunking systems, PL Tones, Frequencies, etc.
 

TexScan780D

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Only One Chance

One has only one chance to add a tag. If the tag is wrong or one wants to change the tag, unable to do so.
 

lowboy654

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TexScan780D said:
One has only one chance to add a tag. If the tag is wrong or one wants to change the tag, unable to do so.
If you miss tag something click on the submit info link tell us what it should be and a Data Admin will fix it.
Ken
 

IdleMonitor

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I fully agree with this. I've just blundered the same thing myself.

bezking said:
Lindsay-
There should be a confirmation, instead of just firing it off when a dropdown option is selected; I just mistagged 4 frequencies (by accident) and now the DB admins have more work...
 

WayneH

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What is it that's causing you guys to mis-tag items? I'd recommend doing them one by one to get the hang of it.

And as Lindsay said, keep the tag analyzing simple and based on how the channel is used. For example, an EMS agency may have a business FCC license and is classified as a business but they operate as an EMS on the freq so it makes the tag fall in the EMS category.
 
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