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Help with setting up long range (50+ mile) GMRS Radio communications solution.

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KK4JUG

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Everyone seems to be taking the advertising personally. Do you return your car when they said it gets 25 mpg and you only get 24 mpg? Things like "lowest price" or "fast relief" are known as puffing and like it or not, everyone does it. Fifty miles on GMRS? No it says UP TO 50 miles and under the absolute best conditions, they can do it. I pretty much assume puffing in all advertising now.

I learned long ago to actually read the labels and the fine print on them and it makes a difference.
 

K7MFC

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Do you return your car when they said it gets 25 mpg and you only get 24 mpg
The more apt comparison in this case is advertising 200 mpg when the car really gets 24 mpg in normal everyday conditions.
 

KK4JUG

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The more apt comparison in this case is advertising 200 mpg when the car really gets 24 mpg in normal everyday conditions.
If they did that, it would be cause for concern, but they don't.
 

K7MFC

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Well that's essentially what a "50 mile" bubble pack radio is doing - puffing the range of a UHF HT to the about 8 times the range in normal use conditions. See my comment above getting 80 mpg in my F-150.
 

KK4JUG

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Well that's essentially what a "50 mile" bubble pack radio is doing - puffing the range of a UHF HT to the about 8 times the range in normal use conditions.
That's what I said. Everybody does it, deodorant, cars, laundry detergent, GMRS/FRS radios, batteries, carpet cleaner, ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

Don't single out the radios to clean up their act. They're following the lead of everyone else.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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So if Ford claims 200 mpg for a 24 mpg car it is cause for concern, but Uniden can claim 50 miles knowing that 3 to 6 miles is the most any user is likely to experience, is somehow OK?

Please explain how this extreme "puffery" can even be legal? I buy plenty of products and don't see the FTC allowing such claims.

Before you tell me that I can use the radio from mountain to mountain, tell me how often I would do that and how often you coast your car for 200 miles. Never and never.
If they did that, it would be cause for concern, but they don't.
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KK4JUG

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Where do they advertise 200 mpg? Ford doesn't say that, someone here did it. Right or wrong, it's the way it is now.

I think I'm gonna sue Home Depot. Their 2X4s are not really 2 or 4 inches.
 

bob550

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Manufacturers who aren't careful about tempering expectations run the risk of disappointing and then alienating their customers. The fine print may provide the real-world numbers, but that's usually printed in sub-atomic-sized font.
 

K7MFC

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Where do they advertise 200 mpg?
They don't do that because inflating a number 8 times to entice customers would be ridiculous...just like inflating the advertised range of bubble pack radio by 8 times to 50 miles is also a bit ridiculous.
 

bob550

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Where do they advertise 200 mpg? Ford doesn't say that, someone here did it. Right or wrong, it's the way it is now.

I think I'm gonna sue Home Depot. Their 2X4s are not really 2 or 4 inches.
There are people out there that would sue, and lawyers who would take the case, even though no lumber is exactly the stated size.
 

bob550

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They don't do that because inflating a number 8 times to entice customers would be ridiculous...just like inflating the advertised range of bubble pack radio by 8 times to 50 miles is also a bit ridiculous.
I would think that all a manufacturer has to do is to document achieving that range just once to be able to advertise that fact.
 

N4GIX

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There are people out there that would sue, and lawyers who would take the case, even though no lumber is exactly the stated size.
More to the point, all architectural blueprints take the actual dimensions into account.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Calling a mistatement of performance "puffery" is incorrect by definition in the article you cited. Puffery would be saying "our radio has better range than competition" without providing proof.

The mileage claims are really false advertising. It is in the realm of manipulation of weights and measures. Like selling a 2 lb "lean steak" with 1 lb of fat hanging from it. It may be 2 lb steak or 1 lb lean steak, but not both.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_advertising

It is wrong, and these radios should not be sold this way.
Yes, and just to be clear, I don't believe this type of puffery in advertising is necessarily illegal:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puffery#Federal_Trade_Commission_definition

It's just a deceptive and crummy way to treat your customers. I'm not sure what the motivation is for the commenters who are defending the claims manufacturers make for these 50+ mile range bubble pack radios.
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K7MFC

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It is wrong, and these radios should not be sold this way.
Agreed 100% - all local/state/federal laws aside, it's insulting to customers who understand the physics of the electromagnetic spectrum, and deceptive (or at best, misleading) to those who do not.
 

KK4JUG

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But the bottom line is, they will do 50 miles...under the absolute best conditions possible. Furthermore, they say UP TO 50 miles (or 30 miles or whatever).

Is it wrong? Probably so. If it is not wrong, it is certainly misleading. Is it going to change? Maybe, right after hell freezes over.

Early in my 3/4 century life, I was burned a few times and learned to read the labels (micro fine print included) and now I like to think I make more intelligent decisions by looking past the puffery.
 

scanmanmi

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Back to the OP

I was researching the same thing a few years ago. Basically ALL direct simplex (non atmospheric bounce) communication, regardless of frequency or modulation, is guaranteed only to be line of sight. If you can get further than that your probablility decreases and you may be boucing off buildings, trees, etc. I could not find a way to get 60 miles. Currently I live on a slightly elevated area and with a 40 foot tower and with a 75 watt mobile I can count on about 45 miles. 50 watts gets about 30-35 miles. 8 watt walkie gets about 5 miles. I can get my 60 miles with 5 watts into a ham repeater crystal clear.
 

KK4JUG

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How many watts is the Voyager I satellite?* 40+ years old, God knows how many miles away.........

Let's talk about line of sight,



*I think it's 22W.
 
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