HERO units now on Ga Tech Phase II System!

[DanRollman]

Cool find Dan.....I think Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta dispatches are right on the money...the further enumerated breakdowns shown on that flow chart may not apply to talkgroups per se but I think we are making great progress on the lion's share of HERO comms/labels.

The Extra Mile Blog says "HERO Master Operator program was initiated in 2016. They are responsible for patrolling, security sweeping and reversing traffic on the state’s I-75 South Metro Reversible Express Lanes in Cobb, Henry and Clayton counties." The unit IDs I am hearing on what I've labeled Northwest and South channels, match up with IDs in the table on page 4 at http://www.dot.ga.gov/AboutGeorgia/Board/Board Meeting Documents/TheHEROProgramat25.pdf for "Master Operator N" and "Master Operator S" respectively. So those channels are used by the Master Operators that patrol the I-75 toll lanes north and south of the city, respectively. Unclear whether they also patrol the I-75 main line in those areas - it seems like it. In any event, these two channels may be called something other than "Bravo Dispatch," "Charlie Dispatch" or "Delta Dispatch" because the HEROs who are operating on those channels are not listed in the A, B, C or D columns in the table, they're listed just under "Master Operator S" or "Master Operator N".

According to Highway Emergency Response Operators - Wikipedia, A, B, C and D correlate to shifts, not areas. "The HERO day is split into four shifts: Alpha (morning), Bravo (afternoon), Charlie (weekend) and Delta (overnight)."

And yet, we know that HERO has 4 channels called Alpha Dispatch, Bravo Dispatch, Charlie Dispatch, and Delta Dispatch (slide 25 at http://www.dot.ga.gov/PartnerSmart/...stern State Equipment Managers Conference.pdf confirms this), but we also know that the 4 primary talk groups are clearly being divided by area of the city. So this is really confusing.

If we don't figure it out before, the next time I see a HERO unit at a gas station I'll ask him if he can explain.

 

[INDY72]

Question: Was the Marietta Site never built?

 

[SkiBob]

This came out today. Most of it we already know, but thought some would be interested.

2 investigates: GDOT radios weren't working in some areas, putting your safety at risk

<p><strong>Channel 2 Action News </strong>investigated Georgia Department of Transportation radios not working in some areas, putting the safety of many people at risk.</p>

www.wsbtv.com

 

[DanRollman]

What a great article. This is especially amazing to me because they switched from SoLinc - which I would have thought had great coverage across the metro - to a P25 system with only a single tower downtown - which I would have thought would have eroding coverage more than a few miles from downtown. And yet, "in October 2019, GDOT gave the HERO operators' new radios. 'The problems stopped when GDOT switched to a actual radio that's used by first responders across the metro,' said the GDOT worker."

Here I was, expecting to see an article about how their old radios worked just fine but the state foolishly made them switch to a radio system with a single tower that is insufficient to cover their huge area. They were on SoLinc for so long, but we couldn't monitor it and know the users didn't like its performance.

I love how the GDOT guy insists the old radios worked just fine ("those claims are baseless") notwithstanding actual users reporting where their radio didn't work. This almost makes me wonder whether a snickering GDOT manager told the HERO boss he'd move them over to a "real public safety P25 system" assuming HERO would hate the state's single-site system, only to find they love it!

 

[RRR]

Noteworthy; "HERO" units, "CHAMP" units.... they aren't "required" or truthfully, necessary. They are there to supplement local and state public safety, and to assist with roadside assistance. (That private companies can do)

I think they are great, and helpful, but on the same note, especially with the title line of the article posted ("Putting your safety at risk"), it seems as folks have become so accustomed to a (non-essential) public service, they have come to depend on it. Such is life with people depending on the govt for all that 'ails ya.

 

[DanRollman]

Noteworthy; "HERO" units, "CHAMP" units.... they aren't "required" or truthfully, necessary. They are there to supplement local and state public safety, and to assist with roadside assistance. (That private companies can do)

Note though their stated mission: "...primary duty to clear roads so that normal traffic flow is restored. HEROs also assist stranded motorists with flat tires, dead batteries or in need of fuel or coolant." The first part is no less "necessary" than the existence of GSP, which of course does nothing that local law enforcement can't do (and mostly, does do). The second part, which is basically what HERO does in their spare time, most certainly is just a luxury. If you spend any time listening to HERO on the scanner (now that we can), it is pretty clear they exist primarily to get closed lanes open again as soon as possible and enhance emergency scene safety - and generally much faster than PD would. Sometimes they also change a tire or jump a battery in order to quickly get a driver off the side of the road where traffic is whizzing by, if they have time.

HERO is a recognition of the fact that it is penny wise and pound foolish to spend tens of billions of dollars on additional lane miles of extra freeway but not spend a few million dollars a year keeping those lanes flowing better when they get jammed up by stalls and wrecks in the travel lanes.

Also, Champ is not just a "statewide HERO". Their mission is a bit different. They also have a highway maintenance component to their responsibilities.

 

[Casey]

I think Southernlinc in a press release indicated they were keeping a few iDen sites active but only to mid 2019 I think i read... while most were transitioned to LTE push to talk smartphones...possibly they had bad performance due to SL shutting down a lot of the redundant legacy iDen sites a bit too early before everybody exited. Also, if the video is to be believed, it looks like Harris got the contract for HERO radios.

 

[DanRollman]

I think Southernlinc in a press release indicated they were keeping a few iDen sites active but only to mid 2019 I think i read... while most were transitioned to LTE push to talk smartphones...possibly they had bad performance due to SL shutting down a lot of the redundant legacy iDen sites a bit too early before everybody exited. Also, if the video is to be believed, it looks like Harris got the contract for HERO radios.

The HERO chief's letter complains three times about the "new radios". I assumed that referred to the newer SoLinc LTE devices. I had thought they switched to LTE before complaints increased and they finally went to P25.

 

[rayvelcoro]

This came out today. Most of it we already know, but thought some would be interested.

2 investigates: GDOT radios weren't working in some areas, putting your safety at risk

<p><strong>Channel 2 Action News </strong>investigated Georgia Department of Transportation radios not working in some areas, putting the safety of many people at risk.</p>

www.wsbtv.com

Thanks for posting that article!

 

[Napsterbater]

Hero units are apparently using Motorola APX radios I don't know the exact model. But it was quoted as being "$5000"...

Which of course is absolutely insane for a radio that they do only one thing with, talk, they don't use any other advanced features.

It's also funny to find out they're only using a system that has a single site downtown.

They also carry Southern Linc Sonim XP 3 "Radios" this is what they were originally using, and they keep them as a backup apparently. Which as many have discussed becomes needed the further away from downtown they get.

Champs throughout the state carry the XP 6 radio which is a full-on Android device.

Word has it they have just as many issues with Southern Linc as hero did.

Seems like they probably would have been better using the Sonim radios on a better LTE network like Verizon which the state already uses for phones and data, or even firstnet with AT&t. Instead of spending an insane amount of money on those kind of portables on a system with a single tower.

 

[INDY72]

I guuess that answers the question I had about the second site never getting done even though its still on the license.

 

[DanRollman]

Hero units are apparently using Motorola APX radios I don't know the exact model. But it was quoted as being "$5000"...

Which of course is absolutely insane for a radio that they do only one thing with, talk, they don't use any other advanced features.

It's also funny to find out they're only using a system that has a single site downtown.

Why be critical of them using a system with a single tower if it works for them? It sure sounds like it does. I listen to it daily - they dispatch deep into Gwinnett, Clayton and Cobb Counties off that lowly single tower. And the system and tower was already there, mostly used by the Georgia Tech library security officers and electricians (with APX radios). No issues with that?

HERO started using an existing system, already paid for, that adequately covers the area they need to cover.

Advanced features? What advanced features do you think most cops and firemen use on their APX radios that HERO isn't using? Not to mention the sanitation workers, hospital custodians, school bus drivers, water meter readers, Stone Mountain Park amusement ride operators, airport security line wait time monitors, landfill front end loader drivers, and municipal golf course starters, all using APX radios around town. No issue there, but HERO operators have to keep using cell phones while running lights and sirens to emergency incidents?

 

[MTS2000des]

$5 grand is cheap for an APX. Average price of an APX8000 with all LMR bands, WiFi, TDMA, P25 trunking and multi-key AES/OTAR/OTAP tops out around 9 grand give or take, depending on volume of units purchased.
The APX NEXT, which is a replacement for the current APX series, are $9,000 and UP radios (with all LMR bands and LTE active), and require yearly subscription to Radio Central portal to provision/program.
The stuff costs what it costs. Until LTE can do what LMR can and be as reliable, the costs won't go down.

 

[DanRollman]

$5 grand is cheap for an APX. Average price of an APX8000 with all LMR bands, WiFi, TDMA, P25 trunking and multi-key AES/OTAR/OTAP tops out around 9 grand give or take, depending on volume of units purchased.
The APX NEXT, which is a replacement for the current APX series, are $9,000 and UP radios (with all LMR bands and LTE active), and require yearly subscription to Radio Central portal to provision/program.
The stuff costs what it costs. Until LTE can do what LMR can and be as reliable, the costs won't go down.

Very good points. Moreover, it looks like HERO is mostly using APX4000 Model 2 radios, so they likely spent a lot less than that. And they already had a lot of these radios for interop purposes. All in all, this seems like a relatively efficient choice HERO made and it is working reasonably well for them.

 

[MTS2000des]

We paid around $3100 for APX4000 2 knob model 2.5s back in 2016, with AES-256, OTAR multikey, TDMA, 5 year service from the start. A big EMS agency on our system on the south end (hint hint) bought APX900s with TDMA and AES for around $2200 a piece. So there are lower priced APXs that aren't "$5000".

 

[petty4305]

Hey guys, I just thought that I would chime in. I am a former HERO Operator and can tell you that the information on slide 4 of the power point Dan posted shows all the operators on each shift. Alpha shift, Bravo Shift, Delta Shift. The C/A, C/B, and C/D are the Charlie shift (Weekends) and the A, B, D on the end are the days, evenings, and overnight shift times. The Units as a whole should operate on Alpha Disp, Bravo Disp, and Charlie Disp depending on the Zone they are in. Just thought I would throw that out there.

 

[DanRollman]

Hey guys, I just thought that I would chime in. I am a former HERO Operator and can tell you that the information on slide 4 of the power point Dan posted shows all the operators on each shift. Alpha shift, Bravo Shift, Delta Shift. The C/A, C/B, and C/D are the Charlie shift (Weekends) and the A, B, D on the end are the days, evenings, and overnight shift times. The Units as a whole should operate on Alpha Disp, Bravo Disp, and Charlie Disp depending on the Zone they are in. Just thought I would throw that out there.

Thanks for sharing that. Is A1 weekday zone 1 and A2 weekday zone 2?

Can you tell us about the zones (where they are)? And is Zone 1 on Alpha Dispatch and Zone 2 is on Bravo Dispatch (when Bravo Dispatch is open, which does not seem to be all the time)?

 

[petty4305]

Thanks for sharing that. Is A1 weekday zone 1 and A2 weekday zone 2?

Can you tell us about the zones (where they are)? And is Zone 1 on Alpha Dispatch and Zone 2 is on Bravo Dispatch (when Bravo Dispatch is open, which does not seem to be all the time)?

In reference to the A1 and A2, etc..... Alpha shift (weekdays 4am-2:30pm), Bravo shift (1pm-11:30pm), Delta shift (9:30pm-8am). Now for the Weekends, those are the Charlie shift and they are just like the weekdays just a different shift times. Charlie Alpha, Charlie Bravo, and Charlie Delta. Forgive me for not knowing them, I never worked the weekends. The A1 and A2, are the 2 different Alpha shifts. This continues with each shift group. 1 was generally Monday-Thursday and 2 was Tuesday-Friday. I think the Charlie shifts were only 1.

The metro interstates are setup into zones for HERO. Alpha Disp. covers 1 or 2 zones, Bravo Disp covers 1-2 zones and Charlie Disp covers 1-2 zones. I was told recently that with the new radio system, supervisors have their own channel or channels, not to sure.

Hope this helped a little.

 

[RRR]

So the "Day" and "Night" doesn't have a different talkgroup, the TG's are assigned by area, correct?

Would make no sense for TG's to be reserved for shifts / times

 

[DanRollman]

So the "Day" and "Night" doesn't have a different talkgroup, the TG's are assigned by area, correct?

Would make no sense for TG's to be reserved for shifts / times

I think part of the confusion is that Alpha Dispatch has nothing to do with Alpha Shift. There's A, B, C and D shifts, and there is A, B, and C Dispatch, but they aren't correlated.

So far as I can tell, A Dispatch, Northwest Dispatch, and South Dispatch are operating 24/7/365. The zones within B Dispatch and C Dispatch when those channels are open, are on A Dispatch when those channels aren't open. A Dispatch is always open. B Dispatch is open sometimes, typically covering 285 from about 400 east to I-20, Highway 78, and 85 from around NDH up into Gwinnett. C Dispatch is very rarely open, but when it is I have heard operators on 400, and a little on 285 between 400 and 85.

Northwest Corridor channel seems to cover 285 from 400 west to around I-20, and 75 from 285 out, plus 575. It may also cover 75 inside 285 a bit.

South Metro channel seems to cover 75 south outside 285.

A Dispatch always covers I-20 inside 285 and the connector inside 285, plus 75 and 85 inside 285 on the south end (as noted, I can't tell how much of 75 north of Brookwood is on Northwest Corridor, or how much of 85 north of Brookwood is on B Dispatch).

And of course, as noted, when B Dispatch and C Dispatch don't have a dispatcher working, the trucks that would otherwise be on those channels are on A Dispatch. I recently heard a supervisor on B Dispatch agreeing with the dispatcher that since they would only have 4 trucks working their area after a certain time they might as well all switch to A Dispatch at that time. So it is fluid.

Yes, this is imprecise at this point. But that's a sketch. I welcome any comments, clarifications, corrections.

I remain impressed just how well this system is serving HERO from a single tower on top of the 2 Peachtree Street building downtown. My Uniden SDS100 loses coverage in some pockets, but my KNG and KNG2 P800 radios (and presumably their APX radios) do better. Interestingly, I loose coverage even on my KNG radios for a half mile or so at the bottom of the valley on 400 between Lenox and Genridge, around the old toll booth, which I think I have heard might someday become the new HERO HQ (to replace Plaster Ave when they get out from underneath I-85). Would be interesting for HQ to be located in a radio dead zone!

Dan