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Homeless Services Non-Profit Need

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HavenBTS

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I run a homeless services non-profit organization. Our name is Haven-Beat The Street.

I am putting together a team of volunteer outreach workers to engage the homeless and provide any services that they may need in Atlantic City, NJ. We need a way to communicate within city limits so it is short range communication. I was thinking about MURS. They are low power, but VHF to hopefully get around a 2 mile range mostly line of site on the boardwalk and we can use CTCSS to ensure that no one else can easily interrupt the volunteers transmissions. (I do understand that even using a CTCSS or DCS that people could hear us but they can't talk to us)

We operate mostly on donations but with the lock down this past year many of our regular donors were not working so our donations have been drastically lower than usual. That being said I have two questions.......

1. Is MURS the way to go since they are license free or do you recommend something else?
2. Does anyone know of any organization that might either offer equipment at cost or possibly even donate used equipment?

Quantity need is 8 radios.

Thank you for any help.
 

RaleighGuy

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we can use CTCSS to ensure that no one else can easily interrupt the volunteers transmissions. (I do understand that even using a CTCSS or DCS that people could hear us but they can't talk to us)

Using CTCSS or DCS doesn't prevent anyone from using the same PL codes as you choose, if by the luck of the draw a business or individual is also using that code then there will be interference. Additionally, even line of sight you can not count on one watt = one mile, in my experience you'd be lucky to get a mile with optimal reception before signal quality starts to drop significantly.
 

mmckenna

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1. Is MURS the way to go since they are license free or do you recommend something else?

Unlikely you'll get 2 miles from MURS in an urban environment. Under some conditions it'll work, but not reliably. If your operations can function with unreliable communications, then it's an option.

UHF would perform better, but FRS won't reliably do it either. A licensed UHF frequency would be more reliable as you could run higher power.

Not sure what your budget is, but if all your volunteers have cell phones, that would give you the coverage you want. Use a push to talk app.

If you have a bit more of a budget, you can get walkie talkie like radio that run over cellular LTE. The function like a walkie talkie, but make use of the cellular network. The cellular service is low quantity data, so you can often get service for$10/mo.

Or, contact a local radio shop and see if they have a service that they will provide at a discount.

Or, work with a local radio shop to get some used UHF portable radios. Have them assist you in setting up an FCC license for a UHF itinerant channel. Running a 4 watt UHF radio is likely to get you something close to the range you want.


2. Does anyone know of any organization that might either offer equipment at cost or possibly even donate used equipment?

usedradios.com
Or, you might find a local radio shop that will give you a deal.
 

HavenBTS

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Thank you for the replies so far.

The problem with using cell phones is that I put peers on the street because they get better results but unfortunately most can't afford cell phone service.
 

air-scan

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Olympia P324 Two Way Radio (buytwowayradios.com) $30 per radio closeout sale.

Still needs a license to operate. Your organization may apply for one and that license shall cover all the users. Contact someone in your area that has the knowledge on FCC business licensing.
Same site offers licensing FCC Radio Licensing Services (buytwowayradios.com) very expensive.

Thank you for the replies so far.

The problem with using cell phones is that I put peers on the street because they get better results but unfortunately most can't afford cell phone service.
 

mmckenna

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Thank you for the replies so far.

The problem with using cell phones is that I put peers on the street because they get better results but unfortunately most can't afford cell phone service.

OK, got it.

Cell phone may still be a good option. Prepaid cell phone with a Push To Talk app. If they go missing, not big loss. Recharge when data runs out.

MURS isn't likely going to work reliably, so spending money on it may result in lost money.
UHF at 4 watts is likely to be your best bet and cheapest solution.
But don't buy $30 radios. These are what we refer to as "Cheap Chinese Radios" or "CCR's". Remember, that with that 30 bucks, the vendor and the manufacturer are still making a profit, so that radio probably costs about $5 to make. Low cost radios have low quality parts and minimal filtering. In a high RF noise environment like Atlantic City, they are going to have issues. Unlikely they'd last very long on the streets.

Looking at the longer term costs, the lower cost solution is to get some used UHF radios. Get licensed on one of the UHF itinerant channels. The license is good for 10 years. A couple of good condition radios from a reputable manufacturer will outlast the cheap Chinese junk radios by a long shot, plus you'll be able to get things like replacement batteries, periodic service, etc.

I'm on the board for a local homeless advocacy group and volunteer several hours a week. I understand the position you are in.
I'd be happy to assist. I could help you do the FCC paperwork to get a few frequencies for your radios. If you trust me, I can also assist you in purchasing some used radios. I have the equipment needed to do radio alignments and can bring them back to factory spec. I can program most Kenwood and a lot of Motorola and Icom radios. I'd be happy to assist for free.
 

03msc

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Often local radio shops have a few frequencies that they have licensed themselves and will either lease out or whatever to groups. You might contact one and if you're a known local non-profit that they've heard of, they may assist you and let you use one of their frequencies. Could even be that they'd have a repeater pair that is up and would provide adequate coverage.
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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There are a lot of radio dealers who rent radios for events. You might ask them for a deal on renting some simplex UHF radios for a month to see what works for you in that environment.

If your need is not critical, and the radios work most of the time, simplex may work fine for you. But if you find that the performance is only 50-50, you may need a more elaborate system with repeater which may be out of reach depending on the geometry and terrain.
 

CaptDan

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Just a thought - and please do not be offended by my comment - just never know these days - if you are a legit non profit providing services to the homeless in Atlantic City, NJ then I would contact some of the Casino's.

I've been away from NJ for several years now, but in the past the Casino's were always willing to help out in the community, especially when they could reap some tax credit rewards. It's really all about the bottom dollar for them. From what I have read here and elsewhere many have recently upgraded their systems, they might have some of their older equipment around in storage, they might even have some repeaters still working on some of their older channels, etc.

Ya never know without asking, over the years I have occasionally been shocked at what a business will do, mainly because in the end they take a tax credit. To your organization they might be a dozen 5 year old radios, to the tax man the business had to buy a dozen new radios to replace the dozen donated to you, etc.

The Casino's have a vested interested in helping the homeless, not to sound heartless, but one of the last things any of the Casino's want is homeless people camped outside their doors, so they might be very inclined to help a program helping the homeless.

Many years ago, in another lifetime before cell phones, a business in Trenton NJ, that had it's own repeater and radio system allowed a program that sounds similar to yours to use their repeater and system at night. The business only worked during the day, delivering cement and building products and allowed an outreach program to use the system at night.

The point being - ya have many options - good luck !

Please keep us posted how things work out for you.
 

HavenBTS

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Just a thought - and please do not be offended by my comment - just never know these days - if you are a legit non profit providing services to the homeless in Atlantic City, NJ then I would contact some of the Casino's.

I've been away from NJ for several years now, but in the past the Casino's were always willing to help out in the community, especially when they could reap some tax credit rewards. It's really all about the bottom dollar for them. From what I have read here and elsewhere many have recently upgraded their systems, they might have some of their older equipment around in storage, they might even have some repeaters still working on some of their older channels, etc.

Ya never know without asking, over the years I have occasionally been shocked at what a business will do, mainly because in the end they take a tax credit. To your organization they might be a dozen 5 year old radios, to the tax man the business had to buy a dozen new radios to replace the dozen donated to you, etc.

The Casino's have a vested interested in helping the homeless, not to sound heartless, but one of the last things any of the Casino's want is homeless people camped outside their doors, so they might be very inclined to help a program helping the homeless.

Many years ago, in another lifetime before cell phones, a business in Trenton NJ, that had it's own repeater and radio system allowed a program that sounds similar to yours to use their repeater and system at night. The business only worked during the day, delivering cement and building products and allowed an outreach program to use the system at night.

The point being - ya have many options - good luck !

Please keep us posted how things work out for you.
CaptDan, yes we are a legit 501c3 non-profit organization. If you are from NJ then you must know of the Atlantic City Rescue Mission. I worked there for many years eventually ending up as the Director of Outreach and Community Relations. I worked directly under Bill Southrey who is very well know in Homeless Services. When he left the Mission I followed him and we formed Haven BTS.

I really appreciate your suggestion of reaching out to the Casinos. I must admit that I am really embarrassed that I didn't think of it. I have reached out to police departments and fire departments asking about their old VHF equipment but I never got one reply. You are absolutely correct about it being in the casinos best interest to work with us as well as other agencies. While at the Mission, Bill Southrey and I formed a collaboration with the ACPD. They dedicated one officer full time (Officer Wenz) to work with me on the streets and the boardwalk. Soon after the Revel Casino (now the Ocean Casino) opened, Officer Wenz and I just decided to take a look under the boardwalk directly under the Boardwalk entrance to the casino. We found the largest homeless community I have ever seen. They had it sectioned off into rooms with cardboard boxes. A storage area for sheets. An area where they could gather around and socialize and even a room that was the sleeping quarters. The Revel was happy we found it of course and so were we because we actually got many of them into programs to get them housed.

I just realized that I am babbling on and on. I apologize.

I thank you again for your excellent suggestion and no, I did not take any offense at your opening comment.
 

KK6HRW

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Unlikely you'll get 2 miles from MURS in an urban environment. Under some conditions it'll work, but not reliably. If your operations can function with unreliable communications, then it's an option.

UHF would perform better, but FRS won't reliably do it either. A licensed UHF frequency would be more reliable as you could run higher power.

Not sure what your budget is, but if all your volunteers have cell phones, that would give you the coverage you want. Use a push to talk app.

If you have a bit more of a budget, you can get walkie talkie like radio that run over cellular LTE. The function like a walkie talkie, but make use of the cellular network. The cellular service is low quantity data, so you can often get service for$10/mo.

Or, contact a local radio shop and see if they have a service that they will provide at a discount.

Or, work with a local radio shop to get some used UHF portable radios. Have them assist you in setting up an FCC license for a UHF itinerant channel. Running a 4 watt UHF radio is likely to get you something close to the range you want.




usedradios.com
Or, you might find a local radio shop that will give you a deal.
Another advantage of going the cell phone route is that each person on the team would have ready access to 911 services.
 

GlobalNorth

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As an aside, public safety agencies have to account for every purchase of capital assets over a certain amount and not designed to be expendable. They track it as it comes in through the purchasing contract, through the service life, repairs, and finally, the disposition of such gear as surplus. It gets traded for new gear when its' usable life is reached.

CaptDan's idea about contacting businesses, specifically casinos, is an exceptional idea. They are into community programs and will gladly help charities and causes.
 

HavenBTS

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Thank you all I appreciate all of your suggestions.

I have several contacts in the casinos and I am going to ask them to point me in the direction of the proper person to contact.
 
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