Homepatrol 2 & Eneloop Pro Batteries Issue!

[MARKINAZ]

Hello all,
I typically use the Eneloop 2000 mAh white batteries in my Homepatrol 2 scanner. I decided to pick up some 2450 mAh Eneloop Pro batteries, thinking I'd get a little more time in between battery change-outs (I don't charge in the scanner). Well, the Eneloop Pro's won't power up the scanner at all. They all test good, showing 1.40 V +/- Does anyone know what the issue might be with the Eneloop Pro's? I'm at a loss as to why they won't work in the Homepatrol, yet they work on everything else I put them in.
Thanks very much for your thoughts and reply on this!
-Mark in Mesa, AZ

 

[kruser]

If they fit very tight in the battery compartment, they may not be sliding into position and making contact with each other or at the terminals inside the compartment, or both.

I have an HP-1 that has this same problem. I can usually work the batteries until they make contact but that is not always a long term solution.
An AOR portable I have also has this same problem.
The root cause is some batteries fudge the AA size specs just enough to the point the cells are slightly larger than the AA spec and the result is the problem you are seeing. The most common one is the diameter of the cells is slightly larger making them fit very tight in some devices.

I've also seen some cells that had a smaller nipple on the + end to keep the total length within spec. Well, the shorter nipple would not reach into a recessed hole for the positive terminal. I don't recall what that device was but my solution was to add a drop of solder onto two of the cells positive terminal so they would reach the recessed contact.

Assuming your cells are good as you tested them, something in the above is likely your problem. Probably a physical examination by eye is your best bet. Also, try and coax the cells toward the end away from the spring. If they are tight fitting, the spring end contact does not have the strength to push the tight cell towards and into contact with the other terminal or next cell of they are two cells in series.

Did you also load test them when you checked the voltage? Voltage along can't always be trusted but being as your cells are new, they are probably okay.

 

[MARKINAZ]

If they fit very tight in the battery compartment, they may not be sliding into position and making contact with each other or at the terminals inside the compartment, or both.

I have an HP-1 that has this same problem. I can usually work the batteries until they make contact but that is not always a long term solution.
An AOR portable I have also has this same problem.
The root cause is some batteries fudge the AA size specs just enough to the point the cells are slightly larger than the AA spec and the result is the problem you are seeing. The most common one is the diameter of the cells is slightly larger making them fit very tight in some devices.

I've also seen some cells that had a smaller nipple on the + end to keep the total length within spec. Well, the shorter nipple would not reach into a recessed hole for the positive terminal. I don't recall what that device was but my solution was to add a drop of solder onto two of the cells positive terminal so they would reach the recessed contact.

Assuming your cells are good as you tested them, something in the above is likely your problem. Probably a physical examination by eye is your best bet. Also, try and coax the cells toward the end away from the spring. If they are tight fitting, the spring end contact does not have the strength to push the tight cell towards and into contact with the other terminal or next cell of they are two cells in series.

Did you also load test them when you checked the voltage? Voltage along can't always be trusted but being as your cells are new, they are probably okay.

Thanks for this good information, kruser! I'll look at them closely and see if it's a size issue.

 

[MARKINAZ]

If they fit very tight in the battery compartment, they may not be sliding into position and making contact with each other or at the terminals inside the compartment, or both.

I have an HP-1 that has this same problem. I can usually work the batteries until they make contact but that is not always a long term solution.
An AOR portable I have also has this same problem.
The root cause is some batteries fudge the AA size specs just enough to the point the cells are slightly larger than the AA spec and the result is the problem you are seeing. The most common one is the diameter of the cells is slightly larger making them fit very tight in some devices.

I've also seen some cells that had a smaller nipple on the + end to keep the total length within spec. Well, the shorter nipple would not reach into a recessed hole for the positive terminal. I don't recall what that device was but my solution was to add a drop of solder onto two of the cells positive terminal so they would reach the recessed contact.

Assuming your cells are good as you tested them, something in the above is likely your problem. Probably a physical examination by eye is your best bet. Also, try and coax the cells toward the end away from the spring. If they are tight fitting, the spring end contact does not have the strength to push the tight cell towards and into contact with the other terminal or next cell of they are two cells in series.

Did you also load test them when you checked the voltage? Voltage along can't always be trusted but being as your cells are new, they are probably okay.

Well, I've compared the white 2000 mAh Eneloops with the Black 2450 mAh Eneloop Pros and they are identical. There's no difference in the size or diameter at all. I guess I should check the Pros under a load, but they do work perfectly in other radios (Sangean and C Crane), and I'll have to get a tester that would put a load on them. Any other thoughts?

 

[kruser]

I grabbed some black Pro's and regular white Eneloop's out and found the same as you as far as size goes. The black Pro's were maybe 10 thousand's of an inch larger in both dimensions and when compared with a standard AA cell, about the same again so not enough to make a difference in the HP-1 at least.

For testing, just running your black Pro's in another working device would probably be a good enough way to test them.
Run them in that device for an hour or so and then pull them and read each cell's voltage fairly quickly. If one is bad, it should be fairly obvious as its voltage will usually be far off from the others.

Another test more like a load test would be if you can get meter probes on each end of each cell while they are powering something like your Sangean or C Crane devices. This may not put a lot of load on the cells but it should be plenty for a simple test while those devices are turned on while you read each cells voltage.

In my HP-1, I can't get at the contacts with a meter probe while the cells are in the radio. The meter probes are so fat that they push the cells away from the radio's contacts. For that matter, when cells are inserted into my HP1, you can barely even see the metal contacts that are a part of the radio as the cells totally block them from view.

If your cells prove good in another device, it has to be a connection problem with the contacts in the HP-2 and the Eneloop Pro's.
DC voltage is DC voltage between the two cell types so something is not making connection knowing the older White Eneloop's do work in your HP-2.

If the cells all prove good, the only other suggestion I would have is maybe take a small pick or pocket screwdriver and bend the Negative (-) battery contact out just a tiny bit further in each of the four cell sockets in your HP-2. This will put more pressure on the cell to push it tighter towards the + contact.
The Positive contact should be a fixed metal plate for each cell so you can't do anything with it other than look for corrosion on all four!

I've also seen these type negative contacts get bent in when cells were inserted in reverse accidentally before. Pulling (bending) them back out usually fixes them so long as you don't bend them out so far that they break!

In the HP-1, each of the four cells has contacts at both ends, so no two cells contact each other directly.
Each of the four cell compartments have the spring steel negative plate in it. I'd think this part of the HP-2 is made the same.

Good Luck!

 

[jonwienke]

It's the same on every AA-powered Uniden scanner I've seen. Fixed, slightly recessed + contact, spring-loaded - contact with a little foam pad wedged inside it to give it a little extra "spring" HP-1 and -2, 436, and 396XT are all the same.

 

[MARKINAZ]

It's the same on every AA-powered Uniden scanner I've seen. Fixed, slightly recessed + contact, spring-loaded - contact with a little foam pad wedged inside it to give it a little extra "spring" HP-1 and -2, 436, and 396XT are all the same.

So what's your solution?

 

[jonwienke]

Open circuit cell voltage doesn't mean much. If a cell has high internal resistance, the voltage will drop like a rock under load and trip the low voltage shutdown. Run the cells through a refresh cycle in a smart NiMH charger and look at voltage vs charge/discharge current. One of the cells will probably be different from the rest.

 

[MARKINAZ]

I grabbed some black Pro's and regular white Eneloop's out and found the same as you as far as size goes. The black Pro's were maybe 10 thousand's of an inch larger in both dimensions and when compared with a standard AA cell, about the same again so not enough to make a difference in the HP-1 at least.

For testing, just running your black Pro's in another working device would probably be a good enough way to test them.
Run them in that device for an hour or so and then pull them and read each cell's voltage fairly quickly. If one is bad, it should be fairly obvious as its voltage will usually be far off from the others.

Another test more like a load test would be if you can get meter probes on each end of each cell while they are powering something like your Sangean or C Crane devices. This may not put a lot of load on the cells but it should be plenty for a simple test while those devices are turned on while you read each cells voltage.

In my HP-1, I can't get at the contacts with a meter probe while the cells are in the radio. The meter probes are so fat that they push the cells away from the radio's contacts. For that matter, when cells are inserted into my HP1, you can barely even see the metal contacts that are a part of the radio as the cells totally block them from view.

If your cells prove good in another device, it has to be a connection problem with the contacts in the HP-2 and the Eneloop Pro's.
DC voltage is DC voltage between the two cell types so something is not making connection knowing the older White Eneloop's do work in your HP-2.

If the cells all prove good, the only other suggestion I would have is maybe take a small pick or pocket screwdriver and bend the Negative (-) battery contact out just a tiny bit further in each of the four cell sockets in your HP-2. This will put more pressure on the cell to push it tighter towards the + contact.
The Positive contact should be a fixed metal plate for each cell so you can't do anything with it other than look for corrosion on all four!

I've also seen these type negative contacts get bent in when cells were inserted in reverse accidentally before. Pulling (bending) them back out usually fixes them so long as you don't bend them out so far that they break!

In the HP-1, each of the four cells has contacts at both ends, so no two cells contact each other directly.
Each of the four cell compartments have the spring steel negative plate in it. I'd think this part of the HP-2 is made the same.

Good Luck!

Thanx kruser! Would you have a recommendation for an inexpensive tester or multimeter that would test the batteries under a load? I was looking at this one but not sure how it would pout a load on the batteries; https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X5TSUA/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

 

[MARKINAZ]

Open circuit cell voltage doesn't mean much. If a cell has high internal resistance, the voltage will drop like a rock under load and trip the low voltage shutdown. Run the cells through a refresh cycle in a smart NiMH charger and look at voltage vs charge/discharge current. One of the cells will probably be different from the rest.

My apologies, but I'm not understanding what you mean by "look at voltage vs charge/discharge current". I'm a total newbie to this type of thing. I'm guessing you mean to look at the voltage in a static state, and compare to it under a load? Would you have a recommendation for an inexpensive tester or multimeter that would test the batteries under a load? I was looking at this one but not sure how it would put a load on the batteries; https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X5TSUA/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

 

[jonwienke]

I was looking at this one but not sure how it would pout a load on the batteries; https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000X5TSUA/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza

It doesn't say if it puts a load on the battery, so it probably doesn't. Especially since there is only one setting for "1.5V" batteries.

I use this charger, since it will charge Li-ion cells and NiMH, and you can set the charge and discharge current separately for each battery.

Amazon.com: Opus BT - C3100 V2.2 Digital Intelligent 4 Slots LCD Battery Charger Compatible with Li-ion NiCd NiMh Batteries - US Plug (PURPLISH BLUE): Camera & Photo

Amazon.com: Opus BT - C3100 V2.2 Digital Intelligent 4 Slots LCD Battery Charger Compatible with Li-ion NiCd NiMh Batteries - US Plug (PURPLISH BLUE): Camera & Photo

www.amazon.com

My apologies, but I'm not understanding what you mean by "look at voltage vs charge/discharge current".

When charging or discharging a battery, the battery voltage will change with the current. For example, if the open circuit voltage reads 1.3V, when you apply a 500mA load, the voltage may drop to 1.1V. But if the battery is going bad, a 500mA load may drop the voltage to 0.8V.

If you're charging or discharging several batteries at a time and one is going bad, it will have a higher voltage than the others when charging, and a lower voltage than the rest when discharging.

The charger I linked shows the battery voltage while it is charging and discharging,