How do you go about finding an existing tower to lease space for a new GMRS repeater setup?

[GreatPNW]

There are plenty of towers out there already (TV, cell, etc.) and I'm wondering if there is an easy way of going about locating those towers and proposing an agreement to add to the tower?

I'm interested in creating a local/regional repeater for GMRS. I realize this will probably cost a lot of money. I'm not sure how much. But this is the first step right here in finding out. I also realize we already have a very good regional repeater in operation here. I'm just looking to possibly adding another one.

At this point, I just want to find out how to locate available towers and a rough idea of the cost. Additional steps would include purchasing the equipment, price to have it installed, power backup supply, ongoing maintenance costs, etc.

My location is Orting, WA. My ideal tower location would be at the top of Mt. Rainier (semi-joking on that).

Thank you.

 

[hill]

With tower owners wanting a large monthly fee to have your repeater and antenna there it will most likely be out of yuur financial means.

Plus you will need to hire certified tower companies to install the antenna. Your repeater set up will have follow all electrical codes with not be cobbled together by you costing even more funds.

Going forward I don't see you able to support this repeater.

 

[mmckenna]

When cellular really started to take off, big companies started gobbling up towers. A -lot- of the towers out there are owned by huge companies like Crown Castle, SBA, American Tower, etc.

What's left is towers owned by local/county/state/federal government, and maybe a few small radio shops.

Crown Castle/SBA/AT are expensive and they don't screw around. Pretty rare to see hobby gear at their sites. It's just too expensive and the requirements are really strict.

Governments ~might~ let ham clubs access a site if they make a really good argument for the "EMCOMM" stuff, but that's not easy to do. Many agencies don't play the EMCOMM thing and don't want anyone at their radio sites that may jeopardize their systems. I now a few local/county agencies that will absolutely not allow ham/hobby gear at their radio sites. I do not allow ham/hobby gear at any of my radio sites.

Small radio shops that still own their own towers may be an opportunity, but they are in the business of making money, so cheap tower access is rare.

Some things about tower access:

-Figure $1,000,000 insurance to even touch the tower/install equipment.
-Certified/experienced/insured tower climbers only, unless they require their own team of climbers.
-Last guy on the tower carries burden for any new interference/issues.
-Hammy/hobby grade installs don't fly. Professional gear, proper R56 level grounding, intermod suppression panels, lightning protection, proper hard line coax, no cheapy antennas.
-Tower owner will charge based on the antenna location. Top of tower is expensive. You may get relegated down pretty low.

Tower space leases can get expensive, as in hundreds of dollars a month. I have tower sites where cell carriers are paying several thousand dollars a month.

Ham repeaters have been getting tossed out of some of these sites. "Free rides" are going away, and many hams don't want to take on the challenges of playing at public safety/commercial radio site. Professionals don't tolerate dumbassery when it comes to these tower sites.

Not trying to discourage you. Just consider all the costs involved and think about it before taking this on. I know guys that have nearly gone bankrupt trying to keep GMRS/Ham repeaters at high radio sites. Ham clubs can't afford the sites, GMRS clubs can't either. It's a real challenge and the big dogs don't play games. It really can be expensive.

I'd find an existing repeater system to use, or I'd find someone with some land in a good location and see if you can make a deal. Not sharing commercial/public safety sites will save you a lot of money. But good sites have been claimed, so you may need to settle for the 'less than ideal'.

Good luck.

 

[prcguy]

Besides renting commercial sites I've been able to make deals with a property owners on high hill tops where I build them a repeater system and maintain it for their use then I get to install a few of my own for no site rental. But you need the resources to be able to build and maintain a commercial system as trading material.

 

[GreatPNW]

Thank you everyone for your replies. It sounds like there is quite a bit more to it then I realized. Which is understandable, I appreciate all the input here!

I was thinking that I could just throw X-amount of dollars ($5K-$10k-$15K maybe?) to this and it would be somewhat simple. But the mention of big companies owning the towers, high insurance costs, and other GMRS/HAM repeaters going under, it doesn't sound like I have much of a chance.

Approaching private property owners is probably the next option. But even after that, I still don't have the skills to get it all up and running. I'd need to hire a wholenother entity for that.

 

[MTS2000des]

Infrastructure is like owning a boat, a BMW, or mansion- if you have to ask "how much", than one probably cannot afford it. To put it in perspective, I manage a municipal trunked radio system with 15 RF subsites. Five of them are leased space on towers/rooftops- the leases range from $2900 to $3500 a month with a 3 percent yearly increase, not including utilities, insurance, etc. This should give you an idea of how fat your wallet needs to be.

 

[tweiss3]

The above is IF you can even get one of these tower owners to give you a call back.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

First, find a mountain top. Second buy a big ass fake rock to hide your GMRS repeater underneath. Third, figure out how to power it 24/7/365.

 

[mmckenna]

Third, figure out how to power it 24/7/365.

Easy. Mr. Fusion:



There's a guy on this page that has a 100% legal repeater located on US Forest Service land in Central California. The repeater is built into a sealed barrel. The barrel is enclosed in an unground vault with a steel locking lid. Antenna is a on a pole. I'll have to see if I can find the post.

USFS lease isn't free, however.

 

[mmckenna]

There's a guy on this page that has a 100% legal repeater located on US Forest Service land in Central California. The repeater is built into a sealed barrel. The barrel is enclosed in an unground vault with a steel locking lid. Antenna is a on a pole. I'll have to see if I can find the post.

USFS lease isn't free, however.

There it is! Forest Service site fee proposal

 

[marcotor]

Plus, your fellow users will disappear if/when asked to assist.

We just lost a fantastic site in SoCal at 5300' above the basin because none of the knuckleheads in our group wanted to pay
half (I offered to pay half) of a less than $300/mo site fee with annual increases fixed at 3%, to take over from a deceased user. Oh and he left us four antennas already on the tower.

 

[MTS2000des]

Plus, your fellow users will disappear if/when asked to assist.

We just lost a fantastic site in SoCal at 5300' above the basin because none of the knuckleheads in our group wanted to pay
half (I offered to pay half) of a less than $300/mo site fee with annual increases fixed at 3%, to take over from a deceased user. Oh and he left us four antennas already on the tower.

That part. Repeaters are BMW...Bring Money With you. Plenty of folks will blow up your phone/email when it's down because their FREE RIDE isn't there, but they get ghost when it's site clean up day.

 

[prcguy]

Plus, your fellow users will disappear if/when asked to assist.

We just lost a fantastic site in SoCal at 5300' above the basin because none of the knuckleheads in our group wanted to pay
half (I offered to pay half) of a less than $300/mo site fee with annual increases fixed at 3%, to take over from a deceased user. Oh and he left us four antennas already on the tower.

Lukens?

 

[W8UU]

Find a GMRS user (or a potential two-way licensee) who lives on a hilltop and see about constructing a tower there. Share the initial and ongoing costs. That may be a unicorn of an idea but, under the right circumstances, it's about the only viable option you may have.

 

[paulears]

With most big radio masts in the UK now empty of everything apart from cellular equipment, and them being quite unwilling to allow anything else, our churches have become home to all sorts of gear. Repeaters, wifi nodes etc. the churches cant see the antennas from the ground, or if you can, you stick a flag on it! make a regular donation and all is good. Lots of old village churches were built on hills. Do you have the same.

 

[marcotor]

Lukens?

Harvard.

 

[celestis]

With most big radio masts in the UK now empty of everything apart from cellular equipment, and them being quite unwilling to allow anything else, our churches have become home to all sorts of gear. Repeaters, wifi nodes etc. the churches cant see the antennas from the ground, or if you can, you stick a flag on it! make a regular donation and all is good. Lots of old village churches were built on hills. Do you have the same.

In my town in Indiana the height limits for religious symbols are slightly more liberal than the rest of the rules (20 ft off the apex of your building by default, religious symbols can go up to 60 ft higher)

I've thought 20x about affixing a DB420 to the top of a giant cross, maybe it'd give Code Enforcement a stroke

Asked the hospital's engineering director about leasing rooftop space for a GMRS repeater, he bluntly said he "didn't see the value in it"... I'll stick to my yard then

 

[mmckenna]

I've thought 20x about affixing a DB420 to the top of a giant cross, maybe it'd give Code Enforcement a stroke

One of the cell carriers did that here. Nice new Crucifix with a cell antenna inside. Made the newspaper a few years ago, people were upset, church was happy with the extra income.

Asked the hospital's engineering director about leasing rooftop space for a GMRS repeater, he bluntly said he "didn't see the value in it"... I'll stick to my yard then

Installing at a hospital can be a real challenge, they are careful about RF, grounding, etc. We were looking for a new radio site, and the consultant had pretty strong feelings about avoiding the hospital at (nearly) all costs.

 

[N4KVE]

We are lucky here in S. Florida. Several hams work for 2-way shops at various companies that have repeaters state wide. As long as they have a job, they have access to many towers, & can put up their repeaters there. I asked one guy how he could afford so many repeaters, & his reply was “I can’t afford them, but I have lots of friends who can, but they don’t have a site”. So they provide the hardware, & he provides the site. One of these guys even put up 3 GMRS repeaters. Let’s hope they never retire.

 

[paulears]

In the UK, we have had reported success with ham and community repeaters by offering them to the host in case of emergency. In case of emergency, hams can pass messages on behalf of emergency services, so offering them the service, for free in exchange for the site, has often worked. Hospitals are quite common, and ham gear quietly installed on council buildings and fire towers is not unheard of.