How many deployed APCO 25 systems

[boomer]

Does anyone know or where to find a summery of the number of APCO 25 Digital deployed systems in the US? Guess for all the bands, VHF, UHF and 800 Mhz?

Thanks,
Greg

gregory.boren@bearcom.com

 

[N_Jay]

Does anyone know or where to find a summery of the number of APCO 25 Digital deployed systems in the US? Guess for all the bands, VHF, UHF and 800 Mhz?

Thanks,
Greg

gregory.boren@bearcom.com

I doubt you will find a list anywhere.

I doubt you can even get to a number.

 

[Mozilla]

APCO 25 Systems

Actually an indirect method may reveal some answers for you. By going to Motorola, EF Johnso, M/A Com and and other project 25 sellers and look at their news brief and announcements and you may have to go to the archives depending on how far you want to go back you will find systems they have sold. Manyradio systems are also touted in the trade magazines ( such as MRT, Radio Resource, APCOS magazine etc.) when they are put on line or purchased and finally by go thru the RR DATABASE you may be able to start to get some numbers. It won't cover everything but it will get you some numbers

 

[N_Jay]

Re: APCO 25 Systems

Actually an indirect method may reveal some answers for you. By going to Motorola, EF Johnso, M/A Com and and other project 25 sellers and look at their news brief and announcements and you may have to go to the archives depending on how far you want to go back you will find systems they have sold. Manyradio systems are also touted in the trade magazines ( such as MRT, Radio Resource, APCOS magazine etc.) when they are put on line or purchased and finally by go thru the RR DATABASE you may be able to start to get some numbers. It won't cover everything but it will get you some numbers

You will get a very small number of the true systems this way.
For every one that gets a press release, I bet there are 10 or more that do not.

As for the RR database, I have not looked, but again even in analog systems; ask yourself how many are there in the US vs. how many listings are there in the total database.

One is not a good indicator of the other!

 

[Thornhill20]

Well, judging by all the posts here and elsewhere about people going digital all the time...and new refarming rules here in Canada (maybe in the US as well?), I'd imagine the number is MUCH larger than you could imagine.

Just off the top of my head, I can think of at least two dozen systems, all within my general area, which is relativly small compared to some of the metro. areas in the US.

Using that as an estimate, I would say at LEAST mid to high 4 digit range...

-Mike

 

[loumaag]

Hmmm, back to the origianl question:

Does anyone know or where to find a summery of the number of APCO 25 Digital deployed systems in the US? Guess for all the bands, VHF, UHF and 800 Mhz?

I would guess very few (despite all the previous comments). First, a APCO-25 trunking system is not going to be an EDACS system, because MA/COM does not have an APCO-25 system. Also, I am pretty sure that VHF/UHF systems cannot be APCO-25 systems because they cannot have 9600 baud CC. Now, off of the top of my head (no research) I can only think of three true APCO-25 systems in use, Minnesota state (actually two but will be connected to be one later), Colorado State System and the Michiagan State system. There are plenty of digital systems using APCO-25 type modulation, but the majority of them are 3600 baud systems (for example the SD State System.)

 

[scannerfreak]

Hmmm, back to the origianl question:

Does anyone know or where to find a summery of the number of APCO 25 Digital deployed systems in the US? Guess for all the bands, VHF, UHF and 800 Mhz?

I would guess very few (despite all the previous comments). First, a APCO-25 trunking system is not going to be an EDACS system, because MA/COM does not have an APCO-25 system. Also, I am pretty sure that VHF/UHF systems cannot be APCO-25 systems because they cannot have 9600 baud CC. Now, off of the top of my head (no research) I can only think of three true APCO-25 systems in use, Minnesota state (actually two but will be connected to be one later), Colorado State System and the Michiagan State system. There are plenty of digital systems using APCO-25 type modulation, but the majority of them are 3600 baud systems (for example the SD State System.)

Isn't the state of Alaska's system VHF 9600?

 

[loumaag]

Isn't the state of Alaska's system VHF 9600?

Excellent! You are correct sir!

Okay, I went back and did a little looking, it appears that whatever I was remembering, wasn't that. Don't know exactly where I got that idea, but when I am wrong, I will admit it. However, I still stand by the statement that there are very few True APCO-25 systems up and running. (Obviously enough for scanner Mfg. to put out the scanner though. :wink: )

 

[scannerfreak]

Decided to do a simple yahoo search and came up with this

Looks current as of 4/17/04, not alot of info.. mixes non digtial with digital as well...

 

[kikito]

Isn't the state of Alaska's system VHF 9600?

Excellent! You are correct sir!

Plus, there's another VHF 9600 in Oregon in the 160MHz range and another in Washington also FED on the high 160's and last but not least there's at least, one 400MHz 9600 system in Ft. Gordon, Georgia. The number will just increase every year....

 

[N_Jay]

Does anyone know or where to find a summery of the number of APCO 25 Digital deployed systems in the US? Guess for all the bands, VHF, UHF and 800 Mhz?

Thanks,
Greg

gregory.boren@bearcom.com

Remember P25 "SYSTEMS" can be trunked or conventional, and both types are available in VHF High Band, UHF and 800 MHz.

With most all the FED activities going P25, and many State and Local Gov agncies following suit, I am configent the number is in the hundreds and climing.

 

[loumaag]

While doing some surfing I happened across this site:
http://www.bearcat1.com/apco25.htm

It has many errors, such as reporting trunked systems as conventional (South Dakota as an example) and does not specify what is really an APCO-25 system or simply using APCO-25 digital modulation (known to Motorola fans as ASTRO) such as Jefferson Parish in Louisiana (or once again SD).

Remember P25 "SYSTEMS" can be trunked or conventional, and both types are available in VHF High Band, UHF and 800 MHz.

Actually this is not true, for it to be an APCO-25 System it must be Trunked (and with a 9600 baud CC), otherwise it is a conventional frequency (or a Trunked system), utilizing P-25 digital modulation. Of course, I really am not sure if boomer was asking about where a person would need a digital scanner, or if he was wondering about true APCO-25 system deployment.

 

[N_Jay]

Remember P25 "SYSTEMS" can be trunked or conventional, and both types are available in VHF High Band, UHF and 800 MHz.

Actually this is not true, for it to be an APCO-25 System it must be Trunked (and with a 9600 baud CC), otherwise it is a conventional frequency (or a Trunked system), utilizing P-25 digital modulation. Of course, I really am not sure if boomer was asking about where a person would need a digital scanner, or if he was wondering about true APCO-25 system deployment.

ACtually you are worng.

P25 is athe common name for the TIA102 SUITE of standards.

There is no requirement for trunking or any other specific system architechure.

Yes, if a system is trunked and wants to consider itself a "P25 system" it should adhere to the P25 Truking control specifcations.

This does not make a P25 Conventional system any less of a "P25 System".

One of the primary goals of P25 was to develope a set of technologies that could be applied across all teh system architechures commonly used by public safety communications systems, NOT just trunked systems.

 

[loumaag]

N_Jay,

I am well aware of what P-25 means.

I guess the problem is you consider anything that will communicate, a system; whereas I consider an inter-related group of seperate frequencies, designed to perform as a single unit, to be a system. Granted it could be a linking system connecting across vast reaches of distance by a system of linked repetaters which may be considered conventional but linked. I do not, nor will most people, consider a single frequency or a pair of frequencies, used in a repeater, duplex, or even half-duplex constuct as a system, no matter how many pairs are available. They are still discrete and not a system, despite whatever trashing of the English language takes place by usage.

So you see it is a matter of how one defines a system as to what I referring to, not what P-25 meant. :roll:

 

[N_Jay]

N_Jay,

I am well aware of what P-25 means.

I guess the problem is you consider anything that will communicate, a system; whereas I consider an inter-related group of seperate frequencies, designed to perform as a single unit, to be a system. Granted it could be a linking system connecting across vast reaches of distance by a system of linked repetaters which may be considered conventional but linked. I do not, nor will most people, consider a single frequency or a pair of frequencies, used in a repeater, duplex, or even half-duplex constuct as a system, no matter how many pairs are available. They are still discrete and not a system, despite whatever trashing of the English language takes place by usage.

So you see it is a matter of how one defines a system as to what I referring to, not what P-25 meant. :roll:

system
Combination of several pieces of equipment to perform in a particular manner.

It does not matter if I combine several pieces of equipment, as in one base ands three portables, or if it has an equipment list big enough to fill a 3" binder.

If you use serveral pieces of equipment together to acomplish a task it IS a "System"!

Having been in this field for over 25 years, I can not think of a time where your limited definition would be correct.

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/dictionary/DictionaryResults.aspx?refid=1861717825

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=80891&dict=CALD

 

[loumaag]

Having been in this field for over 25 years, I can not think of a time where your limited definition would be correct.

This, I believe.