How to damage your Impres batteries

[nanZor]

Actually, this is a how NOT to damage them by reverse logic. Some tips on how to avoid abuse I've seen in the workplace....

1) Purchasing spares, and even if stored in a cool place, leaving them UNcharged without ever receiving it's first charge for more than a year.

At only 30-50% charge upon receipt, the clock is ticking before they self-discharge. Fortunately, moto cells tend to be good quality, and can be revived by an Impres charger, BUT overall cycle life has been compromised.

2) Yes, you can safely leave an Impres battery in an Impress charger 24/7, BUT this does not mean neglecting them for a month or more!

All lithium batteries do not like sitting at full charge for more than a few weeks. If you are not using them within a few weeks time, then you should STORE them half-charged, and place them back in service when needed. The Impres charger doesn't trickle. It looks in on the battery every 5 minutes or so, and if voltage has dropped enough, will top them up a little. But if left like this for more than a month, that is effectively leaving them fully charged all the time. It isn't the Impres charger damaging the battery, it is the battery *itself* doing this. (lithium plating of the anode from too long exposure to a full charge).

By use, this means repetetive shift work usage. If you intend to keep them in a charger for 5 years straight, and use them only once a week for an hour, that doesn't count!

The newer Impres 2 chargers have the ability to recharge up to 50 or 75%, and then allowing you to store them for *real* use later. This is more convenient than trying to watch a radio discharging normally with use and pulling it, or forcing a recalibration discharge and pulling it before it starts to recharge.

3) Not using an Impres charger often enough. An Impres charger keeps track of *how* you use the battery, and changes it's algo dynamically. Essentially, as the battery gets used and ages, it may not try to take it to the higher "new battery" voltage, or may take it easy / slower during the blinking green absorb stage. This differs from a dumb-charger that treats older batteries with small effective capacities, higher internal resistance and so forth with the same algo every time.

4) Not knowing when to recycle the trash / zombies. Some batts are simply used up. Others are damaged by leaving the radio powered up in the charger, and using them as a "stand" 24/7. Don't do that.

I love my Impres chargers and batts, but #1 up above is something I see time and time again - Purchased and left to rot for years until the very first charge. That little piece of paper that accompanies the battery warns you that you have a limited time before you should charge no matter what.

Essentially, when left in a discharged state for a long time, the battery starts to eat itself chemically. Just as damaging as leaving it fully charged for a month or more, when storage is really called for.

 

[nanZor]

What about non-Impres batts like for CP200D's ?

I try to use the KISS method with my users that have the non-display, non-impress chargers.

The conversation usually goes like this:

"Hey Bob, here's your new battery. Could you do me a favor?"

"Yeah sure. Thanks, what's up?"

"Please turn the radio off before you charge it. I put that label on the charger as a reminder."

"Cool cool - anything else?"

"Yeah, please don't use it as a stand when you are using it. Remove it from the charger, and let it sit on the desk listening to the dispatcher instead. The battery should last a long time. Just put it in the charger when the radio beeps or at the end of the day."

"Got it. What ELSE you battery geek!"

"Heh, if you want some street-cred around here, if you don't use it for a long time, like when you go on your 2 week vacation, pull it from the charger and let it run for an hour or two before turning it off. You'll still have enough power to be operationally ready when you return without having to recharge it immediately for awhile."

"Sure dude. No problem".

Of course later I find him using it as a stand, and forgetting to run it for an hour before going on vacation. But at least he's turning the radio off before charging.

One step at a time.

The reason for running it for an hour before going on vacation, or not using it for 2 weeks or more is to simply just get the battery from sitting around fully charged for too long. Not so much from charger damage, but from the battery (any lithium battery you use actually) plating itself. Without going into an RC-charger geek fest on him, just getting the battery slightly discharged from full charge makes it go a longer way.

Works on your laptop and garage power tools too when they are not being used for long times either.

 

[Will001]

Very helpful,thanks for posting!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Kader]

Hello,
Please could you tell me how I can revive Lithiumion Battery, they were in the Store more then 3 months (30% charged). Now when I put them in impres Charge , they are juste blinking in RED and show NOT Chargeable in the display of Impres charger.

 

[EWC_BDN]

A guy made a YT video about that Kader. It worked for him, but I've not had much luck with it myself. He put a power supply on the radio side contacts and put the radio into the charger while he had battery voltage on the contacts. the light went solid red and charged.

You can also just send the batteries back to Motorola and they might(should) replace them. If the battery date code is recent enough. They should be under warranty. I've had 100% success rate with this method. The date will be something like "1810" meaning tenth week of 2018.

 

[mancow]

Hello,
Please could you tell me how I can revive Lithiumion Battery, they were in the Store more then 3 months (30% charged). Now when I put them in impres Charge , they are juste blinking in RED and show NOT Chargeable in the display of Impres charger.

Just keep waiting. I had one do the same think and two days later it finally charged.

 

[Kader]

Just keep waiting. I had one do the same think and two days later it finally charged.

I have try it , more than 3 days , unfortunately the same problem . I have seen that there impres battery manager , but I don't know if kanna man with this manager battery revive

 

[nanZor]

Please could you tell me how I can revive Lithiumion Battery, they were in the Store more then 3 months (30% charged). Now when I put them in impres Charge , they are juste blinking in RED and show NOT Chargeable in the display of Impres charger.

Not worth reviving.

Any Impres battery that has self-discharged to this level around 90 days but less than a year means either 3 things:

1) You have a counterfeit knock-off. Change suppliers immediately.

2) The vendor has stored the battery in extremely high heat conditions. Change from the supplier who stores them improperly.

3) The vendor has a liberal return policy on batteries, and ships used batteries from people who merely "rent and return" for events, and pass the used batteries back to you. Change supplier.

Always compare the sticker battery date code to the "first used" data in the Moto radio. Sloppy owners hoarding spares (or shady dealers trying to pass of new-old-stock, and not charging them within a year will show huge differences here.

For the most part, reviving an abused Li-Ion is a waste of time. Even if you *do* trick a charger into eventually charging it, your Potential Capacity will be far less than the Rated / Initial Capacity. Either that, or they sit with a higher internal impedance - but not enough to be totally rejected, and take *forever* to charge as the charger detects this, and after a very brief period of rapid charge (red led), will seem to absorb super slow (green blinking) for hours and hours. One foot in the grave at this point.

It may be worth it from a corporate or club standpoint to invest in a Motorola Impres "reader" which gives more info than the radio does to reveal such shenanigans. Can't fool the eprom manufacturing date with a counterfeit sticker. Just one reason to use Impres.

The Motorola NNTN7392A Battery Data Reader has been invaluable for us when inspecting large shipments, or seeing if "donated" batteries from other departments should go straight to recycling.

Basically, stop wasting time, and change your supplier to a reputable one for a real replacement.

 

[Kader]

Thank for all details

 

[nanZor]

No problem - it's not really complicated - just basic li-ion "best practices" to avoid premature aging.

1) Don't let cells over-discharge, because the active materials decompose and migrate into the electrolyte (such as it is).

2) Don't keep cells in a full state of charge all the time - they oxidize, essentially clogging the active materials with rust or other inorganic materials. 2 weeks to a month at full charge without usage is what I look for before considering formal storage, or at least pulling them down off the top off charge a litte.

This just means don't ignore new batteries that arrived in say a 30% state of charge forever. Likewise, turning off the radio before charging, or using them as a stand - it takes longer to achive a full charge with a load on the battery while charging.

Seen as a "one off" event, it doesn't seem like much. But if this is a common-pattern of usage, then the overall time spent at or near full charge (oxidizing / plating the cells) over the life of the battery is increased.

Things *I* do - without going into a full-blown RC modeler sitting around with a stopwatch...

NEW batteries get a full calibration charge and are allowed to sit in the Impres charger for 12 - 16 hours. Despite Motorola cells being high quality, small variances in manufacturing may have one cell being sluggish with it's first charge - which usually doesn't show up until after 12 hours or so at rest. Therefore I allows the Impres to do it's 5 minute checks on them for 12 - 16 hours. This also ensures that all the active materials are evenly spread in performance.

After that, I just treat them normally, but that first charge of 12 -16 hours is important to me.

Spares are definitely NOT fully charged and stored away in a cool place. After a full charge, I'll use them in a radio to pull them down to 50 - 75 percent before storage. Ideally one wants to store them even lower, but this gives me more out-of-storage operational capability if I don't have time to put them through a full cal first. I trade off a little perfection here - and give more time for those who forget about the battery in a drawer for maybe two years.

Ugly duckling radios sitting at the far end of the gang charger that nobody wants to use: (antenna tweaked, owner routinely clamping a remote mic clip cable on it, bent knobs etc) - if I notice them never getting used, and they get a new battery, after a full charge I'll discharge them to say 85-90%, just to get them off the very top of charge, and remove from the gang charger and let them sit on their own nearby. That way nobody gets mad when the DO finally put them to use after ignoring them for a year or more.

Anyway, one doesn't have to go crazy. Just kind of a best practice kind of thing, not a religion.