• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

How to gain more visibility to those in commercial RF?

Status
Not open for further replies.

KC8QVO

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
127
Hi All,

I am not sure if this is the right place to post. However, I am looking to get in contact with people in RF related industries to see what opportunities there may be out there that might be obscure. I am not necessarily interested in working specifically with two-way radios (business band radios, or any other industrial comms use) but I am not opposed to it.

For more information on my background etc see my facebook post, linked below (I hope it goes through - if not, look up my call on there and you should find it).

If, at the very least, you can help pass my information around - to other groups, companies, individuals, etc that would be fantastic!

As mentioned in the linked post also - I realize there will be opinions, including negative ones. If you do have criticism and negative comments - at least direct it to me privately.

Thanks,
Steve KC8QVO

 
Last edited:

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,269
Location
United States
A couple of suggestions….

Resume should be one page ideally, 2 is pushing it.
Write your resume for the job you want. You've got a lot of stuff on there that isn't radio related. Save that info for discussions in the interview.
Having a separate portfolio with that info you can bring to the interview is a good idea, but what you send in to the company should be a cover letter and one page resume. No more.

It appears to be ham radio heavy. In the industry, ham radio is sort of a given. Most guys have their ham tickets and it's not really used as a resume item, other than maybe a single line under licenses/certifications. If you make it look like your entire experience is from the hobby point of view, you might run into issues. While most of us are hams, not all have a high view of amateurs. Some of the habits/tendencies in the hobby realm don't work well in the professional field. Probably most techs have a few stories about having to fix installs that were done by amateurs. Don't get me wrong, an amateur radio license is a good thing, but you'll need more to get a job in the field.
I'd recommend getting some industry certifications. Specifically:
-Tower climber certification with recent date.
-FCC GROL
-Networking certification, even if just entry level. So much of the industry is about IP networking now, without that, you'll get passed up.

Wasn't too clear about what sort of job you are looking for. If it's a shop, then it looks like you have some good basic understanding. You might want to include some info on mobile installs.
The photos of your installs need to look perfect. Potential employers should be looking for your attention to detail. That means all your wiring neatly routed and secured. All zip-ties trimmed. cables clearly labeled.

Keep in mind that since it looks like you haven't worked in the two way radio industry, they'll probably want to start you down low. That might mean in the install bay. Be ready to accept that and use it as a place to get your foot in the door and move up.

Your experience in the trucking industry might be valuable to the right shop.

Good luck. I'm not in your area, so no help on getting you contacts.
 

KC8QVO

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
127
If you make it look like your entire experience is from the hobby point of view, you might run into issues. While most of us are hams, not all have a high view of amateurs. Some of the habits/tendencies in the hobby realm don't work well in the professional field. Probably most techs have a few stories about having to fix installs that were done by amateurs. Don't get me wrong, an amateur radio license is a good thing, but you'll need more to get a job in the field.
I'd recommend getting some industry certifications. Specifically:
-Tower climber certification with recent date.
-FCC GROL
-Networking certification, even if just entry level. So much of the industry is about IP networking now, without that, you'll get passed up.

Thanks for the info. I highlighted a couple points that I want to hit on.

First - section 11 of my portfolio deals with commercial UHF transmitters I was involved with installing. So not everything in the Portfolio is "ham". However, that is where my radio work has been for the last 6-7 years so that is what I have most of to show.

As for the highlighted - that is precisely what I am trying to transcend.

I imagine the vast majority of the industries dealing with RF share the same sentiments. That is an underlying reason why I am trying to get more visibility and find something that may be rather obscure. The conversation can happen - but finding the people that can look past what I highlighted to allow the conversation to happen in the first place has been quite a challenge.

OK on the certs.

As far as networking - that makes sense with something else I ran in to last year... That is something I'm not interested in, however maybe that is a good conversation topic. What I outlined that I was looking for was:
- RF Test and Measurement
- Tower work including feedlines and antennas, installation, replacements, maintenance
- Mitigating RFI issues
- Tuning of RF-level infrastructure (transmitters, filters of all kinds, antennas, etc)

In one area that I explored it appeared that the position was actually an "IT job" - IE: Computers, Networking, Cameras, etc. Maybe what I am looking for doesn't exist - but IT isn't an area, at the moment, that I want to get in to. There may not be a way around it, though.

As to your point about people needing to re-do installs done by amateur radio operators - is that the primary reasoning that you stated the highlighted? And am I correct that you are alluding to "mobile installs" here, specifically?

Or are there negative perceptions out there of Amateur radio that carry through the entire RF realm outside of "mobile installs"? If so - what are they?

Thanks
 

KC8QVO

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
127
I'd recommend getting some industry certifications. Specifically:
-Tower climber certification with recent date.
OK on the certs.

Just to throw this out there, and I am not saying this is "right", or the way I want to continue - its just the reality of the environment I was in - When I was installing the UHF systems we weren't required to have any certifications and we made do with what we did. As I stated in the Preface - I've done a lot of things related to RF (structure/tower work included) already and am always willing to learn. I had an OSHA 30hr cert back then. That was from a construction course I took in college, though, and nothing the company I worked for provided or required.

Looking back on it, I am not sure what any insurance looked like, either. I do recall looking in to certifications back in the day but I don't recall specifics. I just know none of us had any. Maybe in that world (Agricultural/Farming) it was accepted that way. We weren't on "RF Realestate" like cell towers or other leased structures. Our collocation issues (mentioned in the Portfolio) were only to repeaters on some of the farms as we shared the towers.

Another topic, perhaps a complication, I would like to get some insight in to is this:

Per a discussion with the owner of a company that specializes in tower work (the iron side of towers, not the RF side, per se) - they operate with liability insurance 6 times higher than most any other company/industry (not tower work related). The perspective that was given to me (and whether or not the 6x factor is exactly accurate, I don't know, but we'll use it for illustration) was that because of that their operational cost was extremely high and that was passed on to the customer. Take a cellular company for example. They may not even "build" towers due to liability issues, but they will "buy" towers. In either case, when outfitting a tower, they need a company that is certified, equipped, and experienced to do the "iron" side of the outfitting (installing brackets, antennas, etc, at least, if not the whole erection on a new build). So they hire companies such as the one I talked to. However, the "iron" side is where that company stops. The "RF" side is either the client they are doing the work for, or yet another third party company - that doesn't have the high operational cost that the tower company does - to do the rest of the job.

How many scenarios in all aspects of the "RF World" does the above encompass? The "split" between "iron" and "RF"?

Are there areas of the "RF World" that bridge both the RF side and tower side? That isn't to say "tower erection", per se, but hardline and antenna installs, in my example here, for sure.
 

MTS2000des

5B2_BEE00 Czar
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
5,653
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
I commend you for wanting to get into the industry. My advice is to setup a Linked In profile and start making connections. The advice mmckenna is sound and good, and a great place to start. With little LMR experience, one is going to have to "prove" themselves and in a commercial shop, as mentioned, the install bay is usually that place.

Government radio shops usually seek someone with desired certs and experience, but some may have entry level positions, remember the pay scale may be lower but the tradeoff usually means a stable public sector job with benefits, such as excellent health insurance and retirement.

Resume should be a page and a half max. When I am vetting applications/resumes forwarded by HR, I look for three things:

1. What the applicants' objective is to do for the organization
2. Are they qualified? A simple listing of relevant (to the position applied for) qualifications/certifications are all that is necessary
3. Highlights of recent relevant experience. Keyword here is highlights, not a complete history.

Their work history is something to be discussed once an oral interview is scheduled and background investigation conducted.
Less is more when it comes to resume. The key is that "less" contain exactly what one wants to achieve and how they can benefit the organization they are applying to join.
 

prcguy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
16,462
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
You might look into the satellite broadcast industry, it can pay very well and many of your skills will transfer over. I had an extensive 2-way radio background from component level bench repair and alignment to field instillation of repeaters and antennas and owning my own repeater rental company, then working for an aerospace company at the same time heavy with microwave/mm wave measurements, mechanical design, assembly, etc. Transferring to satellite broadcast was an easy fit and I quickly went up the ladder and eventually retired as a principal engineer.

All of the equipment at a satellite broadcast facility needs maintenance and there is usually constant equipment and antenna upgrades where pulling cables and working up on huge satellite antennas is similar to your two-way radio tower and infrastructure work. There are lots of high power microwave transmitters and filters and other things to tune plus documenting RF and other levels throughout a facility and good RF skills are hard to find and go a long way in this industry.

The satellite broadcast industry pay level is well above the previous job types I had and it was also a lot of fun. It seems there are quite a number of flakes and people who oversell their skills in the satellite broadcast industry and if you really know your stuff you will immediately stand out and be noticed. Besides getting a resume streamlined and targeted for the specific job you want, it would be great if the person interviewing is an amateur radio operator who understands some of your skills.

I still do some occasional consulting and work in the satellite broadcast industry and get sent all over the world to work on stuff at $1k/day rate. I don't think I could have made that staying in the two-way radio or aerospace business.
 
Last edited:

KC8QVO

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
127
I commend you for wanting to get into the industry. My advice is to setup a Linked In profile and start making connections.

Thanks. As for Linked In - can you be more explanatory with why?

I've had a lot of trouble even getting to be able to talk to people. That's why I put the Facebook post together - and why I came here. I wasn't breaking the "application wall" so I needed to find a way to get to people that do this that isn't through the "usual" channel.

To that point - I don't use Linked In. I did up until a few years ago then I took it down for reasons that likely contradict what you may have to say. So if there is merit to what you are saying, and it outweighs those for which I took it down, I want to look at that and make that call.

I am not one to "put everything on social media for the masses" so even the road I've gone down the past couple days here is way past what I would normally hold myself to.

No risk, no reward. So they say...

Resume should be one page ideally, 2 is pushing it.
Write your resume for the job you want.

Resume should be a page and a half max.

Points well taken. I will adjust that.

When I am vetting applications/resumes forwarded by HR, I look for three things:

1. What the applicants' objective is to do for the organization

How am I to know what my objectives are for an organization I don't know and am willing to learn?

2. Are they qualified? A simple listing of relevant (to the position applied for) qualifications/certifications are all that is necessary

In direct relationship to my answer to number 1 - it appears there are a LOT of varying degrees of "RF". At the ground level, RF is RF. However, there are so many applications of that - and that term (just "RF") that I think one of the problems I have hit (again - what I highlighted and commented on in post #3 here) is industries looking at the experience I do have and saying it doesn't fit without seeing through it to find my potential.

3. Highlights of recent relevant experience. Keyword here is highlights, not a complete history.

Back to answers 1 and 2 - if my experience isnt "exactly" what an organization is looking for, then no level of "experience" that I show is going to make the cut.

So back to answer 2 - how do I take what I do know, and can do now, and transcend the barriers to get somewhere here?

By "transcend", I don't mean bypass completely. What I mean is how do I get the "stench on the initial approach" out to get to where I can gain the direct experience that the commercial sector (what ever it may be) is looking for?
 

buddrousa

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 5, 2003
Messages
12,099
Location
Retired 40 Year Firefighter NW Tenn
Can you pass this or do you have this? This is the License I had in the late 1970's and was required by most radio shops to be a tech.
General Radiotelephone Operator License (PG)
Description
A PG is required to adjust, maintain, or internally repair FCC licensed radiotelephone transmitters in the aviation, maritime, and international fixed public radio services. It conveys all of the operating authority of the MP. It is also required to operate the following:
  • any compulsorily equipped ship radiotelephone station operating with more than 1500 watts of peak envelope power.
  • voluntarily equipped ship and aeronautical (including aircraft) stations with more than 1000 watts of peak envelope power.
Qualifications
To qualify, you must:

  • be a legal resident of (or otherwise eligible for employment in) the United States; and
  • be able to receive and transmit spoken messages in English; and
  • pass a written and/or telegraphy examination(s) as described below under Examinations.
Term of License
A PG is issued for the holder's lifetime.
How to Obtain a License
Submit FCC Form 605 along with the appropriate Proof of Passing Certificates. Use the FCC Form 605 and the FCC Form 159 (fee processing form) to replace a lost, stolen, or mutilated license. Many Commercial Operator License Examination Managers (COLEMs) file these documents for applicants who test with the0m. Ask your COLEM if it provides this service to its customers.
Examinationss
To obtain an FCC Commercial Operator License, applicants must submit, to the Commission, proof of passing written and/or telegraphy Elements as illustrated in the following table.9
Type of LicenseElements
General Radiotelephone Operator LicenseWritten Element(s) 1 & 3
Written Examination Elements
  • Element 1 - Basic radio law and operating practice with which every maritime radio operator should be familiar. To pass, an examinee must correctly answer at least 18 out of 24 questions.
  • Element 3 - General Radiotelephone. Electronic fundamentals and techniques required to adjust, repair, and maintain radio transmitters and receivers. The exam consists of questions from the following categories: operating procedures, radio wave propagation, radio practice, electrical principles, circuit components, practical circuits, signals and emissions, and antennas and feed lines. To pass, an examinee must correctly answer at least 75 out of 100 questions.
 

KC8QVO

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
127
You might look into the satellite broadcast industry, it can pay very well and many of your skills will transfer over. I had an extensive 2-way radio background from component level bench repair and alignment to field instillation of repeaters and antennas and owning my own repeater rental company, then working for an aerospace company at the same time heavy with microwave/mm wave measurements, mechanical design, assembly, etc. Transferring to satellite broadcast was an easy fit and I quickly went up the ladder and eventually retired as a principal engineer.
-----------------
I still do some occasional consulting and work in the satellite broadcast industry and get sent all over the world to work on stuff at $1k/day rate. I don't think I could have made that staying in the two-way radio or aerospace business.

Good post. Thank you for the insight.

You bring up, indirectly, an interesting thought I've had as well.

Technology is always expanding, and I dare state - accelerating. If I look at what "wireless" and "radio" were until maybe the 1980's-1990's before the age of the Internet, and in the early stages of the Internet (analog systems) - it seems there would be a lot more application for the background skills I do have. I won't say that technology has moved "beyond" that entirely, because the basics of RF are always there. Its akin to a wheel - just because a car is high tech and drives itself doesn't make the wheel obsolete. However, technology has moved so far above (not beyond) "the basics" that where industries concentrate is the "stuff" they are adding and working with at that level, not the basics.

In one example (my section 11 in my Portfolio is it, though it isn't explained in there this way) I have seen where a "solution" was to use the RF backbone (450 UHF band) to provide a 24/7 service (streaming GPS correction signals). In my view, the technology was given to an industry (in the case of where I experience it, the Agricultural industry) that was not equipped for it. The industry needed the solution, but the industry wasn't equipped with the background and understanding to actually work with it efficiently. I could go on and on about that, but to my point here:

With technology, in a lot of sectors (and we'll use your Satellite Broadcast example as an example) - you have apparently been around that industry for a long enough time to have retired from it. What have you seen in that course of time in that industry from technological advancement there? Can you see where someone entering that field today would have a very steep uphill climb? What are the road blocks? Lastly - if that "train of technology" in that field has accelerated the past few years - how does one "jump on" to that train and make any real headway?
 

KC8QVO

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
127
Can you pass this or do you have this?

I do not have it.

As to passing it - I would have to look over the material and study, but I don't think that would be much of an issue. From a theory perspective - I have an Extra class ham license so I am familiar with the theory for that and have worked with electronics for many years. I won't proclaim to know everything off the top of my head, but with some studying I probably could pass it no problem.

As for CW - I am a CW operator. I would have to brush up on my skills. I'm probably fluent down around 12-15wpm at the moment. The last time I ran CW was SKN and I just took a few notes of pertinent info, I didn't straight copy 100% to paper.

It looks like there are 2 categories:
Radiotelegraph Operator License = CW required, add element 6 in place of 3
General Radiotelegraph Operator License = CW not required, add element 3 in place of 6
 

buddrousa

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 5, 2003
Messages
12,099
Location
Retired 40 Year Firefighter NW Tenn
If you do not know your goals then no company will either. As others here stated list your strong points and where you would like to end up Shop Foreman ect and end by saying willing to start at the bottom and work my way up. Small shops tend to pay less and make you do more with no place to go up.
 

KC8QVO

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
127
Resume should be a page and a half max. When I am vetting applications/resumes forwarded by HR, I look for three things:

1. What the applicants' objective is to do for the organization
How am I to know what my objectives are for an organization I don't know and am willing to learn?
If you do not know your goals then no company will either. As others here stated list your strong points and where you would like to end up Shop Foreman ect and end by saying willing to start at the bottom and work my way up. Small shops tend to pay less and make you do more with no place to go up.

I think the underlying theme here is, going back to my whole reason for the Facebook post even prior to posting here in RR - I don't know what is out there.

I have applied to places (lots and lots with not a single reply) and talked to very few people in the industry up until now. I have enough experience (19 years as a ham, and if you look through my Portfoloio I hope you can see I am a bit above your average knob-spinner) that I know I really enjoy working with RF systems. However, not having a channel to discuss with those in the industry has left me pretty high and dry. That is what this thread here on RR has done more for in the past 12 hours than I have had in 6-8 months. And if it's taken that long, I'm damn sure not in a rush. Its about finding a good path at this point.
 

buddrousa

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 5, 2003
Messages
12,099
Location
Retired 40 Year Firefighter NW Tenn
Ok I am going to get bashed for this but here goes. 40 years ago hams built their own equipment and maintained their own equipment.
Today most hams are paper hams buy throw a way radios and repair nothing and have no idea how it even works.
Today you need to know and be commercial if you want a job in a Two Way Shop.
Last year I saw a child that could not even spell General Class pass and receive his Ham General Class Test.
I am a Ham also but I do not push the point.
My 1977 General Radio Telephone License was a Hobby until I could get the real job I wanted Full time Paid Firefighter at one time I worked part time in a Radio Shop that I still help out in from time to time with our local Trunking System and general trouble shooting.
 
Last edited:

KC8QVO

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
127
I am going to hack up your post in quote as there are different points to hit:
Ok I am going to get bashed for this but here goes. 40 years ago hams built their own equipment and maintained their own equipment.
Today most hams are paper hams buy throw a way radios and repair nothing and have no idea how it even works.
-----------
Last year I saw a child that could not even spell General Class pass and receive his Ham General Class Test.

Amen. I agree with you 100%.

I am a Ham also but I do not push the point.

My 1977 General Radio Telephone License was a Hobby until I could get the real job I wanted Full time Paid Firefighter at one time I worked part time in a Radio Shop that I still help out in from time to time with our local Trunking System and general trouble shooting.

OK

Today you need to know and be commercial if you want a job in a Two Way Shop.
I'm not necessarily looking for a job in a "Two Way Shop", I am not opposed to it if it is the "right path", but more broadly I am looking for a career working with RF. That covers a lot of ground - and two way radios is only a very small portion of that, I believe.

If the only path I have to work with RF at the level I am today is Ham radio**, though I have dealt with some commercial (Section 11 in my Portfolio was in the commercial UHF 450 band so it is still legally "commercial"), how do I make that shift to the commercial world? It would be nice to have a job that I can work in where the doors are there to get the certifications. Yet, it seems I need all of that to get a job. With the stigma of "amateur radio stinks" out there I've been up against a brick wall.

**Please go back to the Portfolio because I am digging in to radios and electronics fairly deeply - I own and use some test and measurement equipment.

How do I transcend that brick wall?

That isn't to say bypass it completely, but at at least if I can get to where I can have the conversation with people that can allow those doors to open so I can get certifications etc would be great. Theres more to the equation, but until I can get others to have the conversation with me nothing happens at all.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,269
Location
United States
OK, let me clarify then.

For background, I've acted as hiring manager for the telecommunications group at a large research university. I've had to shuffle through a lot of resumes over the years, all from those in the telecom field. I've been in this line of work for a long time, so what I'm trying to convey comes for years of experience as a tech, analyst, engineer and manager. I'm trying to help you overcome some of the pitfalls I see when applying for jobs in the industry. I've probably looked over a few hundred resumes in my career.


Thanks for the info. I highlighted a couple points that I want to hit on.

First - section 11 of my portfolio deals with commercial UHF transmitters I was involved with installing. So not everything in the Portfolio is "ham". However, that is where my radio work has been for the last 6-7 years so that is what I have most of to show.


The RTK's are a good start, but they don't really compare to what you'd find in a large repeater system, trunked system, etc. It's good experience, don't get me wrong, but it's a small segment of the industry. If you can find a job with a ag firm that does enough of those, you might find a good niche to fit into. We've had some issues with those locally where a "tech" would set them up on FRS frequencies.


As for the highlighted - that is precisely what I am trying to transcend.

I imagine the vast majority of the industries dealing with RF share the same sentiments. That is an underlying reason why I am trying to get more visibility and find something that may be rather obscure. The conversation can happen - but finding the people that can look past what I highlighted to allow the conversation to happen in the first place has been quite a challenge.

OK, then I'd recommend dropping some of the amateur oriented stuff. It's good knowledge to have, but it shouldn't be the basis for your resume/portfolio. Maybe I'm misreading it, but it looks like that is where most of your radio install experience is when it comes to repeaters and systems.

Expecting hiring managers to read deep in between the lines is asking a lot. They may be looking at a lot of resumes and won't take the time to do that. You've got to keep it short and sweet and speak directly to the skills they are looking for. Your portfolio goes in to depth on a few items. That's good as a conversation piece, but not going to help get past those screening resumes. You need to have a cover letter and then a page or two for a resume. That's it. The trick is figuring out how to market yourself. That usually means you need to write the resume and cover letter to the specific job.

From the way you worded your reply, it sort of sounds like you are wanting the hiring manager to change the way they do things to accommodate your resume/portfolio. That may work in some cases, but not others. When I'm looking at a bunch of resumes, I'm usually giving about a minute or two to each one. I'm looking for key words and experience. Spending 30 minutes or so trying to find that info takes a big chunk out of my day. You need to make it easier for them.


As far as networking - that makes sense with something else I ran in to last year... That is something I'm not interested in, however maybe that is a good conversation topic. What I outlined that I was looking for was:
- RF Test and Measurement
- Tower work including feedlines and antennas, installation, replacements, maintenance
- Mitigating RFI issues
- Tuning of RF-level infrastructure (transmitters, filters of all kinds, antennas, etc)

In one area that I explored it appeared that the position was actually an "IT job" - IE: Computers, Networking, Cameras, etc. Maybe what I am looking for doesn't exist - but IT isn't an area, at the moment, that I want to get in to. There may not be a way around it, though.


Might be you misunderstood what I was saying about networking skills. Either that, or you are going to need to change your attitude when it comes to IT. All modern radio systems involve some level of IP connectivity. It's either used for linking sites, linking repeaters, backhaul, monitoring systems, or just downright point to point IP links for various uses.

The list of what you are looking for is good, but it is severely going to limit you. Shops don't have guys that -just- do specific things. Most shops are pretty small and want people that have a lot of skills and can do it all. Limiting yourself to RFI issues, just tuning, or just tower work is going to likely keep you from finding most jobs. Those sorts of things are great, but they are the kinds of things you transition into after having the job for a while and proving yourself.

Back many many years ago when I was working for a communications contractor, we did a lot of category 5 wiring, coax, fiber optic cable, etc. We had a tech that "only wanted to do fiber". He was referred to as the "fiber prima-donna". He didn't last long. There wasn't enough work in his specific area to keep him going full time. It was easier for us to train the other techs that could do the other work to be good fiber guys. Having one specialist was of no value to us.
Don't try and be a specialist until you've got some time in the job. It won't go over well.

Basic IT skills can be picked up a your local community college, often by taking night classes. It'll boost your marketability. It's cheap investment. I won't hire people now that don't have some level of IP networking skills. In fact, I haven't seen a resume in about 15 years that didn't list at least some amount of networking experience or industry certifications. It would be a really good investment to secure something that boosts your skills there.

As to your point about people needing to re-do installs done by amateur radio operators - is that the primary reasoning that you stated the highlighted? And am I correct that you are alluding to "mobile installs" here, specifically?

Or are there negative perceptions out there of Amateur radio that carry through the entire RF realm outside of "mobile installs"? If so - what are they?

Thanks

Sure, let me clarify.
The skills needed to do an amateur radio repeater install are common with what you'll find in the industry, however there's additional skills and knowledge needed. It's the difference between an amateur and a professional. It's not limited to mobile installs. Any fixed, base, repeater, mobile, etc. installs.

Case in point...
I "inherited" a repeater system at one of our remote research sites. They were on a tight budget and one thing leading to another, as it often does, landed them with an amateur radio operator that would install a 3 repeater for them at a much lower rate than what a professional shop would have charged. Seemed like a win-win situation to them. They got their systems and save a load of money at the same time.
-until it didn't-
It didn't work. They had to change the set up due to some misunderstandings about how the system was going to work. The original design and install by the amateur radio operator was never going to work for a few reasons. The system had to be redesigned, licenses changed, etc. Then it still didn't work well enough to be of any real use.
They finally contacted me to help. The amateur didn't have the skills, knowledge or equipment to get the system working correctly. I had to retune duplexers, replace antennas, redo cabling, redo antenna mounts, and a ton of other little things.
Wasn't that the amateur radio operator didn't try, just that he was out of his area of experience.
The skills needed by most amateurs is quite a bit different that what you'll find in the commercial industry. The requirements for reliability are higher, the licensing/type certifications on equipment are different. The designs are different. In some ways the thinking is different.

Nothing at all that a good amateur radio operator can't learn. There are some really talented hams out there that do beautiful work, but they tend to be in the vast minority. Having the basics down is important. Most of the basics are not covered in a stack of multiple choice questions. There's a lot of skills that need to be picked up along the way, learned from others, learned from experience, and generally taught along the way by peers.

What I'm getting at is that an amateur radio license on its own doesn't translate into someone being a good radio tech in the commercial world.
It really sounds like you have some good skills that go beyond what most amateurs have, and I think that's a good thing. Your resume needs to reflect that, but it needs to not focus on the amateur radio side of things, and needs to instead show off some of the commercial centered skills.
The RTK installs are a good start, but that's a limited segment of the industry. Your photo of the install looks OK, but honestly I'd expect a cleaner install from my guys. There's a few issues I see, and they are issues I often see in amateur installs. Doesn't mean you did anything wrong, but does show that your skill level is more on the basic/entry level side of things. Your resume and what you say you are looking for seems to be more directed to being a specialist/higher level tech. It's good to aim high, we all should, but it's important to understand that starting near the bottom is part of the rights of passage. Not many get hired into mid/high level tech positions without some "time in rank".

I really hope you can take this as I intend it. I'd love to see you find a great job that gives you everything you are looking for. I'm only offering my own experience from doing this for a long time and being on the hiring end of things. You have some great skills, but you've got a few gaps you need to fill in if you want to get into the commercial shop. Won't be hard to do, but it's going to take some work on your part. As your resume/portfolio/skills stand, I'd probably give you an interview, but my gut feeling is that you'd need some time to build up your skills and experience to become a really valuable tech. You've got some possibilities, though, and I think your on your way.
 

prcguy

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 30, 2006
Messages
16,462
Location
So Cal - Richardson, TX - Tewksbury, MA
There are basic things that don't change much in the satellite industry, or at least the RF end of it. Knowledge of spectrum analyzers, RF scaler and vector analyzers, RF power meters which are basic tools of the trade and later came RF analyzers to measure modulated waveforms and display the info in newer terms like MER instead of C/N or EbNo, etc. Modulation schemes have changed over the years from simple FM modulated video to QPSK and 8PSK, etc.

My main job focused on RF and antennas, so technology there moved at a reasonable pace. Video compression, IP infrastructure, computer control and other things are changing much faster and although that was not my main job I did have to keep up with things that interfaced with my RF equipment.

I did find however that computer wienies, bit jockeys and IP pushers are a dime a dozen and every industry is overflowing with them. Not that they are not needed and don't do a good job, its just they are always available and their is plenty of them and I would not want to compete in that busy arena.

A good RF guy is very hard to find and a really good one that is reliable is worth his or her weight in gold in the satellite industry. For many years I had to interview potential techs and engineers for an uplink facility and I find nearly all their resumes are just a list of lies, they don't really know how things in the RF world work and when pressed, they can't talk their way through an interview. Only a few of my interviews stood out and the rest did not have the knowledge we needed or had other problems, social or habitually absent as reported by former employers and were not hired. Only a few out of any that we hired were genuinely great techs and later knowledgeable and valuable engineers.

In the satellite RF industry, if you are really good and word gets out you can pick and choose where you want to work and nearly write your own paycheck.

With technology, in a lot of sectors (and we'll use your Satellite Broadcast example as an example) - you have apparently been around that industry for a long enough time to have retired from it. What have you seen in that course of time in that industry from technological advancement there? Can you see where someone entering that field today would have a very steep uphill climb? What are the road blocks? Lastly - if that "train of technology" in that field has accelerated the past few years - how does one "jump on" to that train and make any real headway?
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,269
Location
United States
It looks like there are 2 categories:
Radiotelegraph Operator License = CW required, add element 6 in place of 3
General Radiotelegraph Operator License = CW not required, add element 3 in place of 6

You want the GROL. CW isn't necessary for anything you'll be doing on the commercial side, other than impressing others when you can decode CW repeater ID's on the fly.

Radiotelegraph operator license is only going to be useful in the marine industry for being a radio operator. Most companies don't hire radio operators anymore. It's too easy to get the certification and they want people with a lot more skills.

On the other hand, the GROL will open some doors for you. Most commercial tech jobs use it as a "filter" of sorts of resumes. Most jobs require it even though it's not a requirement to do the job. It shows more that you have the knowledge and put some effort into getting the license.
Your Extra license will give you a head start on the knowledge, but it's not a 1:1 comparison. The knowledge required to pass the test is different that what you'll find on the amateur tests.
A GROL is required for doing any work on aircraft or marine radios. That includes programming frequencies into those radios.

For the rest of the industry, it's just used as a box that gets checked to show knowledge. Again, with hiring managers, HR, etc. it's often what is used as a "filter". Those that have a GROL might get a second look and those that don't get tossed. All the local radio tech jobs around me require a GROL.

Not hard to get, but you do have to test for it, and you have to be tested by a COLEM. It's not like having your local VEC group do it. There are a number of companies that will do the training and do the test administration for you, as well as the filing. Makes it pretty easy and it isn't too expensive.
 
Last edited:

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
25,269
Location
United States
I did find however that computer wienies, bit jockeys and IP pushers are a dime a dozen and every industry is overflowing with them. Not that they are not needed and don't do a good job, its just they are always available and their is plenty of them and I would not want to compete in that busy arena.

^^^ This.

CCNA, other Cisco certifications, and the like are a dime a dozen, and a resume only showing a long list of certifications doesn't usually result in much. I've done a few of the Cisco courses and while there is some value to them, it's more about indoctrination into the Cisco world. IE: regurgitating part numbers so you can always spec their brand gear.
But the knowledge in IP has become a requirement in this sort of industry. We require it. Industry certifications are good, but on their own they are not enough.

I want people that have well rounded experience, in the field, in the shop and with multiple platforms.

Big thing we look for is also customer facing skills. I've had people that were really sharp and great techs/analysts/engineers, but they could not, for the life of them, communicate with an end users/customer. They didn't know how to talk plain English and meet the customer on their level.
 

KC8QVO

Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
127
OK, let me clarify then.

For background, I've acted as hiring manager for the telecommunications group at a large research university. I've had to shuffle through a lot of resumes over the years, all from those in the telecom field. I've been in this line of work for a long time, so what I'm trying to convey comes for years of experience as a tech, analyst, engineer and manager. I'm trying to help you overcome some of the pitfalls I see when applying for jobs in the industry. I've probably looked over a few hundred resumes in my career.

Thank you for taking the time to type what you posted. Good stuff and I read it all, just one comment for now - below.


It really sounds like you have some good skills that go beyond what most amateurs have, and I think that's a good thing. Your resume needs to reflect that, but it needs to not focus on the amateur radio side of things, and needs to instead show off some of the commercial centered skills.

If you look at the service monitor use in my Portfolio - if I take out the "amateur radio" focus I take out the service monitor entirely. That means filter tuning, spectrum analyzer use, etc. So unless I am misunderstanding your point - to me, what I am reading is I almost need to throw out the whole Portfolio and go to some company with nothing to to show. If I do show anything it is likely to have the opposite affect - a walk out the door, and not a continued conversation.

To illustrate the point - going back to the example of the fiber optic "specialist" that was given earlier - it was easier to train other people that weren't experts in fiber optics than it was to hang on to the guy that wouldn't learn the other skills.

In light of that example - if I walk in to a company looking for work, to them, it probably is going to be more of a problem for them to "undo" all of what they think I know (the bad stigma attached to Amateur Radio already) then build me up from nothing so they will pass on my skills.

Is that not a correct assumption?

Again, to the highlighted above in what I quoted - is there a way to "translate" what I do have to a "commercial focus" that will hold any merit?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top