HP-1 Extreme LCN FINDER

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c5corvette

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I am trying to find LCN info for an EDACS system.

When I "analyze' the system for system load and status I get excellent signal and quality, etc.

However when I run the LCN FINDER, I am getting nothing, absolutely nothing.

Does this work on all EDACS system types?
EDACS Standard
EDACS Networked
EDACS Narrowband
EDACS Narrowband Networked
EDACS SCAT


Anyone with suggestions what I am doing wrong?
 

Jay911

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I have had it work on a regular EDACS system - I guess it's networked but I don't know. It's a VHF EDACS system with multiple sites.

I have not had it work on SCAT sites, but Single Channel Autonomous Trunking is likely to be LCN 1 (as it is just a one-frequency system) anyway.

It won't find frequencies you don't have programmed in - it will put the ones that are programmed in, in the right order.
 

c5corvette

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It won't find frequencies you don't have programmed in - it will put the ones that are programmed in, in the right order.

I have all the correct frequencies, how long should it take to start visualizing something on a moderately busy system?

The system is a 3 site system with one main 11 channel site and two remote sites. I dont think the control channels are interleaved, but I am only monitoring the one site with 11 channels. It is an 800Mhz EDACS Standard system, ProVoice with some Analog on there too.

Has anyone been able to see this work on a similar system, say like San Antonio, etc. or am I doing something wrong, the manual doesnt really tell you how it works or what you need to do, I assume its supposed to be intuitive.

???
 

UPMan

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It should find the control channel within seconds (since the control channel sends its own LCN in the data). So, if you are not seeing that, you probably don't have good receive on the control channel.
 

c5corvette

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It should find the control channel within seconds (since the control channel sends its own LCN in the data). So, if you are not seeing that, you probably don't have good receive on the control channel.
Paul,

It finds the control channel immediately, thats easy I am sure; it turns the entire row (1-30) black. I am literally within 1/2 mile of the foot of the mountain where the tower is and when I monitor the CC directly its clear as a bell.

They do a lot of funky things here to keep people from listening to the analog talkgroups by not publishing the LCN. They do things like roll the control channel randomly sometimes at least once a day.

Never heard of this, but is it possible they have all the LCN numbers higher than 30, thus none are showing up on the screen? I notice when I run Trunk system analyzer and view Current Activity, it finds the control channel but nothing else and on line number one it says the LCN is "4095" - again is is possible they are using wired LCN numbers that are higher than 1-30 and if so is the HP-1 still maybe finding them but I cant see them on the screen (and if so can i download the raw data to find it)?

Are you sure this will find LCN even on ProVoice system? I know when we talked on the phone you said it would, but now I am wondering what I am doing wrong. I run this for about 40 minuets and nothing on the screen but the 11 freqs and one with a black line instead of grey line all the way across.
 

c5corvette

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I can post pic of the LCN Finder screen if you want. In the meantime here is the Current Activity screen...
 

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c5corvette

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You're getting LCN 4095 on an EDACS system?
Jay, yes. See photo I posted above - I am reading "4095" - is that not the LCN of the control channel or is that number something else?

At this point, I am very confused. I think they are doing strange things on purpose. I mentioned they sometimes roll the control channel every day or more often (yet sometimes I've seen it stay the same for up to three days - usually around a holiday.)

I have been trying to figure out how to scan this system for several years with no luck. (I have also never been able to map the LCN manually either, as this system always seemed to cause havoc with UniTrunker.)

Its a known fact there are Analog talkgroups. If you scan all the channels on a regular scanner (periodically locking out the control channel) you'll usually hear nothing but ProVoice garble, but once in a while a clear conversation can be heard.
 

Jay911

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I admit I have little experience with EDACS systems, but in my experience, EDACS systems only report LCN values from 1 to 28 or so, referring to their actual position in the radio system.

I wonder if this is an ESK system? Is it a known system in the RRDB that I/we can look at?
 

SCPD

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I have been trying to figure out how to scan this system for several years with no luck. (I have also never been able to map the LCN manually either, as this system always seemed to cause havoc with UniTrunker.)
Wonder whats going on ... please post a decode log.
 

c5corvette

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I admit I have little experience with EDACS systems, but in my experience, EDACS systems only report LCN values from 1 to 28 or so, referring to their actual position in the radio system.
1-28 makes sense since each site can only have 23 voice channels in actuality (in theory, it can have 25 voice channels and 6 status channels.) So what is the number I am seeing on the Current Activity screen under the LCN column???


I wonder if this is an ESK system? Is it a known system in the RRDB that I/we can look at?
Harrisonburg-Rockingham County Public Safety Trunking System, Harrisonburg, Virginia - Scanner Frequencies

There are two remote sites in the North and Northwest portions of Rockingham County (Virginia) and one main site on Massanutten peak.
 
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SCPD

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If you can, I'd like to see a wave file recording of the discriminator audio from this system.
 

c5corvette

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I guess this topic has hit a dead end for a while.

Unitrunker, were you able to do anything with the wave file I sent?

Has anyone been able to successfully run the LCN finder on a ProVoice system...
Anyone with an HP-1, besides Linsday, in San Antonio that can test EDACS with ESK?
Anyone with an HP-1 in Albequerque / Bernalillo County (NM) that can test EDACS ?
 

Jay911

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I've successfully run the LCN finder on a PV system before. I don't think it has as much to do with the voice modulation on the system as it does the peculiarities of one system vs another.

Suggestion: Run "activity log" (at the bottom of the menu where you find LCN finder) for a while. Zip up & post (as an attachment) the log here. We'll see if it broadcasts "normal" LCN values or the oddball stuff previously reported.
 

c5corvette

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Run "activity log" (at the bottom of the menu where you find LCN finder) for a while. Zip up & post (as an attachment) the log here. We'll see if it broadcasts "normal" LCN values or the oddball stuff previously reported.
Jay, next time I will be near the system for an extended period is likely a few weeks away. I will do this as soon as I can.
 

Jay911

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I have a clarification to make on my last post and a comment to make on the pic in post #11.

Clarification: Activity Log is not in the same menu as LCN Finder. You may already know where to go to get to it, but I'll tell you anyway just in case. If you start out using the menu options ("Menu" in the lower left corner, then "Advanced", then "Advanced" again), you then go "Analyze System", then "Trunked System Analyzer" (directly above the "EDACS/LTR LCN Finder" line). From there, select the appropriate system and site, and after you do that, you are presented with the "Select Tool" menu. On the lower left of that list is "Activity Log". Click it and let it run for a while (anywhere from a few minutes to a half an hour should be more than enough).

Further to add: In order to get the files created by Activity Log, do the following (again, you might know this, but in case you don't, here it is): Plug your scanner into your PC and select Mass Storage mode. In Sentinel, under Tools is the Activity Log Viewer. Open it, then click the only icon (looks like an arrow coming out of the HP1's screen). Follow the prompts (select your scanner, choose/name a Collection (or let the program choose for you), etc), and in a bit you should have the file showing in the viewer window below said icon. Now, if you want to view it yourself, click on the collection name (same rules as Windows tree view applies, click on + to expand, click on titles to open said file, etc). But in order to send it to us in this forum, you have to go to where the actual file is stored on your hard disk. If you didn't make any changes to the default settings when you installed Sentinel, the activity logs will be in "My Documents\Uniden\HomePatrol\ActivityLog\" with folders for each Collection. If you zip up the .log file in the folder (even "Send to>Compressed folder" is fine), it will take up a lot less room than the raw .log file.

Now, for what I noticed about post #11 above. You mentioned that the LCN finder shows just a blank line on that one frequency. The way the LCN finder works is it has all squares grey at start, meaning any frequency could be any LCN. As it figures them out, it puts a white square in the column that corresponds to a given frequency's LCN value. All other squares in that row are turned black to indicate that the other columns are not going to be used for that frequency. The problem is, the HP1 thinks that the LCN is 4095 ... so the white square is WAY off the right side of the screen, far far beyond what you can see.

Not much help, I know. Maybe the data from Activity Log will shed some light.

Are other scanners able to monitor this system at all?
 

KE4ZNR

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I would be greatly interested in seeing the activity log myself.

I have used the LCN finder on a Mixed Mode Primarily Provoice/few Analog TGs system
and it decoded the LCNs fine so (like Jay) I don't believe this is a voice type issue.
(Not to mention I have used it on many other EDACS/LTR systems and have not come across the above situation).
My first thought is that the system type is incorrect in the RR.com database.
Hopefully that activity log will help lead us in the right direction.
Marshall KE4ZNR
 
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