Do the x36HP scanners track this type of trunking system?
Hytera TIII
- Thread starter garys
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The ones I can monitor, no, they do not.
- I have been able to trunktrack the system with DSDPlus so I know it does not have the encrypted Control Channel option.
- I am able to hear voice with DSDPlus and with the 536 in a conventional search, so I know there is no voice encryption.
- DSDPlus does not indicate RAS is being used.
- System uses Direct Frequency Assignment (DFA)
- I tried running Analyze but the only result I get is LCN 4095 which matches the FFF seen in the Debug log.
I sent a debug log to UPMan via email last week from one of my local systems.
chris
- I have been able to trunktrack the system with DSDPlus so I know it does not have the encrypted Control Channel option.
- I am able to hear voice with DSDPlus and with the 536 in a conventional search, so I know there is no voice encryption.
- DSDPlus does not indicate RAS is being used.
- System uses Direct Frequency Assignment (DFA)
- I tried running Analyze but the only result I get is LCN 4095 which matches the FFF seen in the Debug log.
I sent a debug log to UPMan via email last week from one of my local systems.
chris
I'm currently listening to a Hytera system on both DSD+ and my 436HP. DSD+ shows a LCN for the one active frequency of 589/590. The 436HP shows 244 as the LCN. DSD+ is receiving voice traffic, but the 436HP isn't hearing anything. Interesting.
Ubbe
Member
I monitor a large Hytera TIII system that uses LCN in a bandplan and that can be tracked with a 536.
It occasionally skips over the control channel during scan, it's not decoding the active conversations, but that is true for most of the Hytera DMR cap+ and XPT systems here when I use the 536 to scan them.
/Ubbe
It occasionally skips over the control channel during scan, it's not decoding the active conversations, but that is true for most of the Hytera DMR cap+ and XPT systems here when I use the 536 to scan them.
/Ubbe
I guess the answer is a qualified no. Hopefully Uniden will update the firmware so that the scanner works properly with these systems.
Never heard anything from UPMan with regard to the debug file I sent him. Probably focusing on the new scanner. Another system where some changes in DSDPlus made the system easy to monitor was a NXDN48 systems that also uses DFA. Since it is not Hytera, perhaps the problem is with the implementation of DFA rather than with it being Hytera.
chris
chris
If a system is Motorola DMR TIII (displaying DT3 on the 536), is there any way to specify the Network, Area and Site when programming the system? There are many Cap/Con systems also sharing the same frequencies in our area, so we see other types flashing besides DT3 when listening to this system.
Should the control channel be added to the site frequencies along with the voice channels? When we do that, the 536 doesn't seem to stay with the control channel and we miss voice traffic.
Should the control channel be added to the site frequencies along with the voice channels? When we do that, the 536 doesn't seem to stay with the control channel and we miss voice traffic.
Not sure what this has to do with Hytera Tier III not working properly.
I believe you can use the Color Code to pick one system over another, just like you can use a PL for conventional analog channels. Program it as a MotoTrbo system and select the correct Color Code.
chris
I believe you can use the Color Code to pick one system over another, just like you can use a PL for conventional analog channels. Program it as a MotoTrbo system and select the correct Color Code.
chris
> Not sure what this has to do with Hytera Tier III not working properly.
Unlike, say DSD+, the 536 treats all trunked DMR configuration essentially the same. That is, trunked DMR configuration on the 536 isn't Cap+, TIII, etc specific and the 536 seems to decode trunked DMR ad-hoc. Uniden licensed some DMR features from Motorola to help Motorola decoding, but Hytera and Tait are always going to be behind. This is one big reason decoding Hytera Tier III systems is problematic.
Unlike, say DSD+, the 536 treats all trunked DMR configuration essentially the same. That is, trunked DMR configuration on the 536 isn't Cap+, TIII, etc specific and the 536 seems to decode trunked DMR ad-hoc. Uniden licensed some DMR features from Motorola to help Motorola decoding, but Hytera and Tait are always going to be behind. This is one big reason decoding Hytera Tier III systems is problematic.
Ubbe
Member
A DT3 system always sends out a constant datasignal on the control channel frequency of a site. It's highly unlikely it would be re-used by another system in the same local area, or the FCC have made a mistake. Perhaps you have a huge coverage that overlooks a gigantic area. Then it would be possible that another system at a shorter distance to you could override the DT3 control channel and you would see temporary CAP+ or CON when that system have conversations on that same frequency or sends control data burst. If you set a fixed color code you actually don't listen to any other converations but you still could get those CAP+ and CON flashing by.
You must always have the control channel programmed in a Uniden scanner. That channels information will tell you what channel to jump to so that you can follow a conversation in a trunked system. The voice channels needs to be known with correct channel numbers or it will go to the wrong frequency or to no channel at all. A uniden scanner only stays a short while on the control channel if there are no conversations on that site and will scan to the next site. The HOLD time for the system will tell how long it stays and wait on each control channel it finds. As long as it finds a conversation it will be using the DELAY time of the talkgroup and when that times out it will scan to the next site.
/Ubbe
I've been following a Hyteria T III system with DSD+ and trying to follow it with a 436HP. Interestingly, LCN finder on the 436HP shows different channel numbering. Someone on another forum noted that the LCN on the Uniden scanners is the DSD+ LCN divided by 2 and the rounded down to the whole number.
This is a convention center and the system is very slow when there is nothing going on. As a result, I haven't been able to verify if this works yet, although another user has.
This is a convention center and the system is very slow when there is nothing going on. As a result, I haven't been able to verify if this works yet, although another user has.
The control channel needs to be programmed, yes, but the Hytera systems I am trying to program into my 996P2 and 536 use Direct Frequency Access (DFA). This means they act like P25 systems where the information required for determining Voice frequency and slot is transmitted in the data stream. With DSDPlus, you do not need to populate all the channels in the .FREQUENCIES file, only the Control Channel and that is only needed to link the various GROUPS, SITES, files to this system.
Unfortunately Uniden has not got it correct with regard to programming these systems. The CC data stream has the correct info, The Uniden scanners in question cannot make it work correctly.
One would hope that the newest scanner would work correctly but I would not bet $800+ dollars on it.
chris
Unfortunately Uniden has not got it correct with regard to programming these systems. The CC data stream has the correct info, The Uniden scanners in question cannot make it work correctly.
One would hope that the newest scanner would work correctly but I would not bet $800+ dollars on it.
chris
Do all Hytera systems use DFA, or is it an option only used by some?
I would bet it is optional but I don't know for sure. Ubbe says he has a system that can be trunktracked with the 536. I have 2 systems that cannot. I have verified that both use the DFA and Analyze doesn't work.
If I recall, the DMR standard allows for either channel information or frequency information to be used. So if you see a system like the Motorola Con+ OneVoice Network, there is no direct correlation between channel numbers and the frequencies. But the DFA transmits the information needed to calculate the frequencies.
chris
If I recall, the DMR standard allows for either channel information or frequency information to be used. So if you see a system like the Motorola Con+ OneVoice Network, there is no direct correlation between channel numbers and the frequencies. But the DFA transmits the information needed to calculate the frequencies.
chris
Ubbe
Member
I have one big almost nationwide, but sparsly used, Hytera DT3 system, usually 3 frequencies at each site, and one smaller Motorola DT3 in test mode for a year and a third small DT3, that I think is also a Hytera, in test mode, someone making a test call maybe once a week. I have never used LCN finder as communication occure so seldom and LCN finder would tie up a valuable scanner. I use DSD+ continously for a week with a discriminator output from a spare scanner and manually add the Uniden channel numbers and its frequencies. It follows calls succesfully if I hold on to a site or use a long hold time. The deafult 0 holdtime, which is something like 1.5 sec, scans past the control channel almost half of the time when a user talks on a voice channel.
/Ubbe
/Ubbe
I have a Hytera Tier III system nearby. My 536 (v 1.25.00) and 996P2 (1.07.09) scanners cannot monitor the system. I verified the channel numbering (463.5125=1082) for the CC via the Debug file. I enter in the CC and voice channels for the system but the scanner will not hear any voice.
- I have been able to trunktrack the system with DSDPlus so I know it does not have the encrypted Control Channel option.
- I am able to hear voice with DSDPlus and with the 536 in a conventional search, so I know there is no voice encryption.
- DSDPlus does not indicate RAS is being used.
- System uses Direct Frequency Assignment (DFA)
- I tried running Analyze but the only result I get (after several hours) is LCN 4095 which matches the FFF LCN seen in the Debug log.
The Debug file was gathered on the 536 at the same time I was running DSDPlus and was able to verify that there was traffic on both slots of each of the two voice channels below.
1082 (43Ah) = 463.5125 CC
111 (6Fh) = 451.3750 Voice
229 (E5h) = 452.8500 Voice
There is also a NXDN system near me that uses DFA and I could get a debug on that one as the 536 doesn't follow it well. You need to lock out and unlock CC each time it changes (daily)
chris
PM or post for any more info or different file
- I have been able to trunktrack the system with DSDPlus so I know it does not have the encrypted Control Channel option.
- I am able to hear voice with DSDPlus and with the 536 in a conventional search, so I know there is no voice encryption.
- DSDPlus does not indicate RAS is being used.
- System uses Direct Frequency Assignment (DFA)
- I tried running Analyze but the only result I get (after several hours) is LCN 4095 which matches the FFF LCN seen in the Debug log.
The Debug file was gathered on the 536 at the same time I was running DSDPlus and was able to verify that there was traffic on both slots of each of the two voice channels below.
1082 (43Ah) = 463.5125 CC
111 (6Fh) = 451.3750 Voice
229 (E5h) = 452.8500 Voice
There is also a NXDN system near me that uses DFA and I could get a debug on that one as the 536 doesn't follow it well. You need to lock out and unlock CC each time it changes (daily)
chris
PM or post for any more info or different file
I know engineering is interested in DFA system debug logs.
The Hytera TIII is local to me with 2 sites able to be monitored from home. The Nexedge48 TRS with DFA is a short drive. I would just need a rough idea of length of the file they want and if there is any other information from DSDPlus that would help with the files.
chris
chris
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