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I need a price on a Mototrbo system

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adamnfd202

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Maybe some of the Moto dealers can help me on this, my FD is looking to install a VHF Mototrbo system

I need a figure on the following:
32 XPR 6500
17 XPR 4500
2 XPR 8300
No GPS just basic units.
My email is Adambroachphoto@gmail.com
 

mancow

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I would go over to batlabs forums and ask escomm. He is a dealer and very helpful.
 

colby4601

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Mototrbo is NOT the choice for a Public Safety radio system. Especially when used in a hazardous environment like the FD would be operating in. TRBO was designed for commercial clients, not the intensity (literally) of the Fireground.
 

adamnfd202

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Colby4601 what system would you reccomend? We want to take our current freq pair and convert to a digital system with two talk paths, One for police and one for fire, the radios must be able to talk to analog systems.
 

JRayfield

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I keep seeing people state that MOTOTRBO wasn't designed for public safety and that just isn't true - it is designed for public safety. Motorola has marketing materials specifically promoting it for public safety, including fire service. And the equipment and systems include many features that are obviously 'targeted' at the public safety market.

The fact is, it works VERY well in high-background-noise environments. A nearby fire department did tests with MOTOTRBO and found that it worked as well, or better, than analog in high-noise environments (including with their SCBA equipment).

John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma


Mototrbo is NOT the choice for a Public Safety radio system. Especially
when used in a hazardous environment like the FD would be operating in. TRBO was designed for commercial clients, not the intensity (literally) of the Fireground.
 
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micco

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My experience so far with MotoTRBO has been pretty pathetic. Repeaters are unreliable, we lost our radios for 4 hours on a Saturday night for a "unknown reason" per the service reps. The background noise and voice quality in loud environments (fire grounds) render them boarder-line useless, I have to get in a truck and close the doors to use my hand held. Of course the salesmen says they are the best thing since sliced bread and are designed for Mission Critical environments but I have my doubts. The handhelds don't seem nearly as sturdy as the old HT1000 or HT750/1250 that they are replacing. And the most bizarre thing is the PAs on our trucks mess up the hand-helds. The Feds don't seem to have a consistent track record of paying for them. My county decided to delay investing in them for 3 years to see if the Federal grants would pay for them and to see if the problems with the system worked themselves out over time. I think digital for fire ground operations will never be implemented and possibly recommended against by NFPA. Digital is much to prone to failure and interference. I say steer clear of MotoTRBO and digital for firegrounds as a whole..

Mr. Rayfield will refer you to "Case Studies" but if you read the fine print they were all written by him. We had a ICOM rep come out and show us some pure analog narrow band stuff that seemed extremely durable, cost effective, and reliable. We have purchased several ICOM F-50s and had great success with them. My two cents on the subject..
 

JRayfield

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Your experiences with MOTOTRBO are NOT the 'normal'. I've spoken with many users of MOTOTRBO (public safety users) and they've been extremely well pleased. And if you lost all of your communications for 4 hours and the service techs couldn't find the reason, then I suggest that you find another service shop.

As to your 'accusation' that the Case Studies were written by me, that is totally untrue. The case studies are written by freelance writers, who interview the dealers AND the end users. Where in the world that you get the idea that the Case Studies were written by me, I have no idea. You obviously haven't read any of the Case Studies that Motorola puts out.

I suggest that you stop making accusations that aren't true.

John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma


My experience so far with MotoTRBO has been pretty pathetic. Repeaters are unreliable, we lost our radios for 4 hours on a Saturday night for a "unknown reason" per the service reps. The background noise and voice quality in loud environments (fire grounds) render them boarder-line useless, I have to get in a truck and close the doors to use my hand held. Of course the salesmen says they are the best thing since sliced bread and are designed for Mission Critical environments but I have my doubts. The handhelds don't seem nearly as sturdy as the old HT1000 or HT750/1250 that they are replacing. And the most bizarre thing is the PAs on our trucks mess up the hand-helds. The Feds don't seem to have a consistent track record of paying for them. My county decided to delay investing in them for 3 years to see if the Federal grants would pay for them and to see if the problems with the system worked themselves out over time. I think digital for fire ground operations will never be implemented and possibly recommended against by NFPA. Digital is much to prone to failure and interference. I say steer clear of MotoTRBO and digital for firegrounds as a whole..

Mr. Rayfield will refer you to "Case Studies" but if you read the fine print they were all written by him. We had a ICOM rep come out and show us some pure analog narrow band stuff that seemed extremely durable, cost effective, and reliable. We have purchased several ICOM F-50s and had great success with them. My two cents on the subject..
 

micco

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The only "case study" I have found in support of MotoTRBO for public safety, MOTOTRBO for Public Safety? YES! :Rayfield Communications , is yours. Motorola hasn't published a case study supporting it that I can find. Numerous studies involving business and college campuses but in all honestly I haven't spent a lot of time looking.

Adamfd202 my advice.. Read the forums. The only people supporting MotoTRBO for public safety are the ones that are going to make a dollar off of it. The end users that have the experience with the system have very little to say favorably of it. I am sure some agencies are happy with them but I do not know of one. I say do what we are doing. Get yourself narrow band complaint and wait for the bugs to work out. Also, if you are anticipating the Feds helping you financially, well don't hold your breath. You figure it out.
 

JRayfield

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That's not a 'Case Study', that just an 'article'. There is a link in that 'article' to a Case Study that Motorola put together of a county-wide system in Georgia. There will be more of those types of Case Studies coming, too. Here's a link to this Motorola-published Case Study: http://rayfield.net/downloads/mototrbo/Trbo_CaseStudy_Rural_Public_Safety.pdf

Your statement that "The end users that have the experience with the system have very little to say favorably of it." is a broad statement that is not necessarily true. I have personally spoken with a number of public safety end users that are extremely happy with the MOTOTRBO systems.

You state that you don't know of anyone who is happy with MOTOTRBO. That's fair. But, I do know of numerous public safety agencies that are very happy with MOTOTRBO. Just because you don't know of any, doesn't mean that MOTOTRBO is a terrible thing for public safety. If it was so bad, then I'm sure that I wouldn't have found all of the ones that I did, who are happy with it.

John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma

The only "case study" I have found in support of MotoTRBO for public safety, MOTOTRBO for Public Safety? YES! :Rayfield Communications , is yours. Motorola hasn't published a case study supporting it that I can find. Numerous studies involving business and college campuses but in all honestly I haven't spent a lot of time looking.

Adamfd202 my advice.. Read the forums. The only people supporting MotoTRBO for public safety are the ones that are going to make a dollar off of it. The end users that have the experience with the system have very little to say favorably of it. I am sure some agencies are happy with them but I do not know of one. I say do what we are doing. Get yourself narrow band complaint and wait for the bugs to work out. Also, if you are anticipating the Feds helping you financially, well don't hold your breath. You figure it out.
 
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GTR8000

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I would love to know how exactly that is a "case study", when all it appears to be is sales literature. I read the entire article twice through, every single word, and not once did I come across anything indicating the system has even been installed yet, much less is operational. Lots of mentions of the features the system WILL have, on paper of course. They don't even mention the county by name, nor do they mention any names in the article such as the "Fire Chief" or "EMA Director". Nope, just glossy sale literature fluff from Motorola, not a single substantive thing to be found in the entire promotional literature.

Mr Rayfield, all due respect, your constant beating of the MOTOTRBO drum for public safety use is disingenuous at best. As the owner of a company that is a full line Motorola dealer and service partner, as well as whose primary product offering is MOTOTRBO (based on your own website), to say you have very little objectivity regarding this subject is putting it mildly.
 

JRayfield

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Often the names of the end users are not mentioned in these Case Studies. But that doesn't mean that they're not 'legitimate'. The fact is that there are quite a few public safety agencies that are currently using MOTOTRBO and that are very happy with it. I've spoken, personally, with a number of them, over several different states.

My background is not in sales. I obtained a First Class Commercial FCC license in 1978, when I was 18. I already had an Advanced Class Amateur Radio License. Since then, I've upgraded to an Extra Class amateur radio license and added Radar Certification to my Commercial license. I also now hold a Master Certification from the Electronic Technicians Association (ETA-I)(there are only about 270 Master-Certified Technicians worldwide, out of over 100,000 Certified Technicians). I've designed hardware and software for the communications industry that has been used by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (in Saskatchwan), the Washington State Department of Transportation, and Hyundai (in S. Korea), just to name a few. And I currently am a technical editorial advisor for Radio Resource/Mission Critical magazine.

I don't mention this to brag, but to show you that I'm definitely a 'techie' (a nerd, geek, or whatever the current term is - just ask my wife <G>). So when I look at something, I don't look at it from the stand point of 'sales'. I look at it from the standpoint of 'technical operation'. You are probably quite correct when saying that I'm not 'objective'. But that doesn't come from my desire to sell something to someone. It comes from comparing, technically, MOTOTRBO to other equipment and systems. From a technical standpoint, MOTOTRBO is, in my professional technical opinion, much better in performance and functionality than any other type of equipment/system that I've ever seen (and that includes P25 Phase 1).

Different people have different opinions as to the use of MOTOTRBO for public safety. I understand that. And if they voice that opinion, that's fine. But when they go to the extent of making untrue and misleading comments about MOTOTROB (either due to lack of knowledge or some other reason), I think they've gone to far. If they don't have factual knowledge, then they need to refrain from making 'unfounded' comments.

John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma


I would love to know how exactly that is a "case study", when all it appears to be is sales literature. I read the entire article twice through, every single word, and not once did I come across anything indicating the system has even been installed yet, much less is operational. Lots of mentions of the features the system WILL have, on paper of course. They don't even mention the county by name, nor do they mention any names in the article such as the "Fire Chief" or "EMA Director". Nope, just glossy sale literature fluff from Motorola, not a single substantive thing to be found in the entire promotional literature.

Mr Rayfield, all due respect, your constant beating of the MOTOTRBO drum for public safety use is disingenuous at best. As the owner of a company that is a full line Motorola dealer and service partner, as well as whose primary product offering is MOTOTRBO (based on your own website), to say you have very little objectivity regarding this subject is putting it mildly.
 

radioman2001

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The 2 dealers I deal with, and I who have no financial gain from are Rail-Comm of Memphis,Tenn, and First Communications of Florida. We have a contracted discount with them. Maybe if your state has a bidder contract use them. We paid about $700.00 for Mobiles and Portables and $1800.00 for the repeater.
The point has to be made, are you replacing an analog Public Safety grade radio with digital PS grade radio? Most every department I know of other than in the big cities are using Pro series radios. My agency uses PRO series, so does my local PD and FD, we have over 1000 HT-1250's, and CDM-1250's. They are not public safety grade radios in a sense, at least according to Motorola. Motorola would like all PS agencies to buy $4K radios. Our sister agency uses XTS-2500 radios, but the price difference is about 4 to 1. Motorola is also known for pushing any product that gives them an unfair advantage in the market. MOTOTRBO is that product at this time. MOTOTRBO is half the cost or less than a comparable P-25 radio. It does have a lot of nice features that go beyond an analog radio. So i wouldn't push the PS radio grade button only. Besides why would a small department need to buy $3-4K radios anyway, especially if they don't need any of the extra features. If an agency wants to go MOTOTRBO, or even NXDN, let them, but I suggest they try a few radios in real situations and test it for themselves first.
I know of at least 2 departments that have gone MOTOTRBO, one with GPS tracking. That department has had a few problems, that were related to a bad repeater antenna and a timing issue with the GPS on the second slot. The other department just uses it with a repeater, and works just fine. There are probably hundreds of users of MOTOTRBO out there including large hospitals that are now networked with each other, those also have all worked just fine. My personal experience with MOTOTRBO is that the jury is still out. I don't like digital radio's, just like I despise digital cell phones.
Good luck with your upgrade!
 

micco

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Thank you for proving my point better than I ever could have...



That's not a 'Case Study', that just an 'article'. There is a link in that 'article' to a Case Study that Motorola put together of a county-wide system in Georgia. There will be more of those types of Case Studies coming, too. Here's a link to this Motorola-published Case Study: http://rayfield.net/downloads/mototrbo/Trbo_CaseStudy_Rural_Public_Safety.pdf

Your statement that "The end users that have the experience with the system have very little to say favorably of it." is a broad statement that is not necessarily true. I have personally spoken with a number of public safety end users that are extremely happy with the MOTOTRBO systems.

You state that you don't know of anyone who is happy with MOTOTRBO. That's fair. But, I do know of numerous public safety agencies that are very happy with MOTOTRBO. Just because you don't know of any, doesn't mean that MOTOTRBO is a terrible thing for public safety. If it was so bad, then I'm sure that I wouldn't have found all of the ones that I did, who are happy with it.

John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma
 

ts548

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Can we get back on track now? Its pretty simple OP. Look at each system, talk to different reps about their respective systems. Find a couple you are interested in and contact the system managers and or users and ask how they like the system. From there go with which every system you think will work out the best and suite the needs of your department.

All your going to get here is this one is better then that one BS. Its no different then Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge. Research my friend key.
 

R8000

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I suggest looking at the pros and cons of going to a Mototrbo system. Interoperability issues, monitoring issues, locked down vendor issues...etc.

I would strongly suggest P25.

If your agency decides to do something, I really suggest going to your local dealer first. Give them first crack at it. Going to a discount online dealer may save you some cash on the purchase, but when something is not working right and you take that online purchase to your local dealer, eh it tends to leave a bad taste in your local's mouth.

The term "you scratch my back, I will scratch yours" does exist, and happens. Keeping the money locally is always a good idea.

Many may many times I have seen people try to save a buck by going online and buying equipment that isn't right for the job it's needed to do. Then having a local dealer come bail them out for prime dollar. Perhaps just going to your dealer and telling them what you need to do , having the right stuff purchased up front and installed correctly will be cheaper than doing it yourself, then asking for a bail out.

Perhaps there is some bad history with your local dealer, we don't know . If so, go to the next local one you have.

I am not trying to be a jerk, but just giving you some honest info based on experience, coming from a tech at a rather large Motorola dealer.
 

JRayfield

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One simple problem with P25 - it cost too much for MANY smaller agencies to afford. They may be able to get the radios, but they simply can't get enough money for the infrastructure to support the type of system that they need. For example, many need wide-area coverage. But to do that with P25 requires expensive simulcast systems (for conventional) or trunking (for multi-site roaming). Unfortunately, it appears that those who developed the P25 spec, didn't think about the small, rural agencies that need wide-area coverage but are limited on money. It would have been nice if they had put multi-site roaming capability into the P25 conventional spec, but they didn't. So other, newer systems that can do this (such as MOTOTRBO and Nexedge) are becoming more and more popular with these types of agencies.

I keep seeing people saying that everyone should use P25 if they're going to digital, but NO one every comes up with an effective way for those smaller agencies to get the money.

Very good points about purchasing radio equipment from mail order discount places.

John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma

I suggest looking at the pros and cons of going to a Mototrbo system. Interoperability issues, monitoring issues, locked down vendor issues...etc.

I would strongly suggest P25.

If your agency decides to do something, I really suggest going to your local dealer first. Give them first crack at it. Going to a discount online dealer may save you some cash on the purchase, but when something is not working right and you take that online purchase to your local dealer, eh it tends to leave a bad taste in your local's mouth.

The term "you scratch my back, I will scratch yours" does exist, and happens. Keeping the money locally is always a good idea.

Many may many times I have seen people try to save a buck by going online and buying equipment that isn't right for the job it's needed to do. Then having a local dealer come bail them out for prime dollar. Perhaps just going to your dealer and telling them what you need to do , having the right stuff purchased up front and installed correctly will be cheaper than doing it yourself, then asking for a bail out.

Perhaps there is some bad history with your local dealer, we don't know . If so, go to the next local one you have.

I am not trying to be a jerk, but just giving you some honest info based on experience, coming from a tech at a rather large Motorola dealer.
 

JRayfield

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This is exactly what people need to do. They shouldn't listen to people who make broad statements that one particular system is terrible, that no one likes it, and that it shouldn't be used for public safety. On the other hand, if someone is 'promoting' something as good, then they should have facts to support what they claim.

Do the research and get the facts yourself.

John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma


Can we get back on track now? Its pretty simple OP. Look at each system, talk to different reps about their respective systems. Find a couple you are interested in and contact the system managers and or users and ask how they like the system. From there go with which every system you think will work out the best and suite the needs of your department.

All your going to get here is this one is better then that one BS. Its no different then Ford vs Chevy vs Dodge. Research my friend key.
 

JRayfield

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I commented because of broad and 'false' statements made by others about MOTOTRBO (and even one comment about me). When I see such 'incorrect' information, I correct it. It's that simple. I'm not going to sit by and let people mislead others.

John Rayfield, Jr. - CETma
 
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