IC-F9521T issue with analog

[Stretchman]

I recently picked up an IC-9521 and have it programmed. On three of the frequencies I have programmed, the radio will not key up repeaters in analog. They work fine in digital. I have mixed mode selected for these repeaters, and have a separate group of analog frequencies programmed in a different zone. I know the radio is transmitting, because I listened to it on a separate radio, but the repeater will not key up.

I tried it in reverse in mixed mode analog, and it will still not key up any of these repeaters in analog. I have a EFJ 5100 that brings up the repeater fine in both modes.

There's still a couple of things I want to try, but if anyone has seen anything like this before, and can offer me a clue, I'd appreciate it.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Program one channel analog and one channel P25. I thought in mixed mode you had to select the TX mode. RX would do either.

 

[Stretchman]

Program one channel analog and one channel P25. I thought in mixed mode you had to select the TX mode. RX would do either.

Tried that. Tried talkback mode. Set up the HT and made certain the radio was xmitting the right pl tone, and according to my ft70, it's right. Works on other analog repeaters. Also works in p25, both straight digital, and in mixed mode.

I have frequencies programmed in right now that are straight analog, with the pl programmed, and the radio will not key them up. Never seen anything like it before.

 

[hill]

Is this for ham repeaters?

If it is I am thinking the radio and frequencies are programmed narrow band and with ham radio being wide band the deviation of PL isn't enough to open repeaters.

 

[jeepsandradios]

True. Wasn't thinking about that but you do have the channels programmed for wideband correct ? And are you trying a simplex channel or repeater side by side.

 

[Stretchman]

Programmed wide band for analog. I tested the radio using an ft70 on the input side with t-sql set and it's xmitting the tone. I can xmit p25 and the signal reports are good. I can xmit on other ham repeaters and they operate normally.

The repeaters are Motorola quantars that are mixed mode. The only thing I can think of might be some kind of timing issue. I did have an xtl that I was programming and I might be able to check the settings on that and see if they are different. That, however, is me venturing out of my depth. I'll remember to make back ups of the settings before I attempt it.

 

[Stretchman]

Programmed wide band for analog. I tested the radio using an ft70 on the input side with t-sql set and it's xmitting the tone. I can xmit p25 and the signal reports are good. I can xmit on other ham repeaters and they operate normally.

The repeaters are Motorola quantars that are mixed mode. The only thing I can think of might be some kind of timing issue. I did have an xtl that I was programming and I might be able to check the settings on that and see if they are different. That, however, is me venturing out of my depth. I'll remember to make back ups of the settings before I attempt it

Programmed wide band for analog. I tested the radio using an ft70 on the input side with t-sql set and it's xmitting the tone. I can xmit p25 and the signal reports are good. I can xmit on other ham repeaters and they operate normally.

The repeaters are Motorola quantars that are mixed mode. The only thing I can think of might be some kind of timing issue. I did have an xtl that I was programming and I might be able to check the settings on that and see if they are different. That, however, is me venturing out of my depth. I'll remember to make back ups of the settings before I attempt it.

Something else I discovered reading through the threads on here is the lack of support for wideband entitlement on later versions of the firmware. The radio reports that it is at 3.2.5, and others have said that the tones might not be decoded properly if the radio isn't xmitting them on wideband, regardless of what the programming software is reporting, and that a radio, once updated, can not be rolled back to a previous firmware that actually supports wideband transmission.

I did actually try to program the radio for analog only and still wasn't able to bring up that repeater, after doing a restore of the unit from the original read.

I might have to check with icom. They don't offer any way to enable entitlement.

 

[Stretchman]

Interestingly enough, I took the FT-70 and put it in narrow band mode and was still able to bring up the repeater in question. I was also able to transmit on the frequency, and receive audio through the 9521. So, I'm thinking it's not a wideband issue, but more of ctcss issue on motorola quantar mixed mode repeaters only. All of the other analog repeaters in the area I do not have any issues with, and the audio reports are good.

So, rather than hit up Icom for a wideband fix, maybe the root cause of this is something to do with the ctcss settings in narrow band that won't allow these radios to key up a mixed mode repeater, and maybe we should be asking them why that is? IF any of these other radios can key up those repeaters in narrow band, then the 9521 should be able to as well.

In the software, there is an adjust menu, so the radio can be tweaked, but the levels indicated in the software do not correlate to anything in the real world without an actual reference. Does anyone know anything about these radios, and is it possible to adjust the ctcss settings in that menu to enable the radio to bring up those repeaters? Because that is really the issue, not necessarily whether or not it can do wideband.


I am anything but an expert of these, but I do think there's a way to get a service manual for the radio. However, I do not have the bench equipment to test it out. However, I am thinking that there's an easy fix for this out there, and I just don't know what it is yet. I do know that there are still some servic3es out there that use wideband and that Icom probably has a way for this to be done, but no one is making any of that knowledge publicly available to ham radio operators. I've already got a feeler out to an Icom radio shop, and am waiting to hear back from them. I might have to contact Icom themselves to see if there's anything I can do, and whether or not I'll have to wing it on my own.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Well we use the 9521 for SAR and have multiple that work just fine with our Quantars. Never had an issue with any of them. All SAR stuff is narrowband so I dontk now if the issue would be there in wideband. Id try to get someone to look at the radio with a service monitor and check PL deviation on the channel your working with.,

 

[Stretchman]

Well we use the 9521 for SAR and have multiple that work just fine with our Quantars. Never had an issue with any of them. All SAR stuff is narrowband so I dontk now if the issue would be there in wideband. Id try to get someone to look at the radio with a service monitor and check PL deviation on the channel your working with.,

Maybe your repeaters are set to narrow band analog? According to the Icom shop I talked to, there is a way to enable wideband in these radios for US gov users, but they do not consider the amateur community to be US gov, despite being licensed for it and having privileges. Makes no sense to me, but with things the way they are, they might see the potential for abuse, and do not want to be involved.

I'm going to maybe talk to Icom themselves tomorrow, and see if there's anything I can do.

 

[Stretchman]

The PL sensitivity of the Quantar is about 300 Hz deviation in wideband, and about 150 Hz in narrow band. So, when running narrow band mobiles into a Quantar set for wideband, the PL deviation coming from the mobiles will be right on the ragged edge of decoding. There is no way to adjust this in the Quantar. You either need to make all mobile radios the same bandwidth and match whatever the Quantar is, or perhaps you could run the PL deviation of the narrow band radios up to about 500 hz.

Motorola servicing concerns

 

[Stretchman]

Long story short. There is an adjust utility in the radio software. I was able to adjust the ctcss level and voila!, I was able to key up the repeaters in analog. Audio reports are none the worse for wear and tear, and it seems to be working as advertised. Thanks to all for the help. 73.