Icom: Icom 7410 & JT65/JT9

[chrissim]

Hello:

Since I finished DXCC and WAS, I am not as enthusiastic about the phone portions of the bands. I'm slowly learning CW, but in the meantime I thought I would tinker with digital modes.

I have an Icom 7410 that I am not using (it's a backup) and thought I would implement it as a digital/CW rig. One reason I purchased the Icom is for that reason. It doesn't need an interface, such as a signalink for most modes (I think RTTY is a mode that is not supported natively by the Icom). Regardless, JT65/JT9 is supported.

I've been attempting to use the programs JT65-HF (I know it's outdated) and WSJT-X. I can decode just fine, but it doesn't seem to transmit. The rig indicates a transmission, but there is clearly no transmission taking place.

I have read that one should turn the wattage to a full 100 and then control output with the master volume on the computer. I have also read that transceiver wattage should be no more than 30 watts, but then the volume on the PC should be adjusted to transmit. So then, which is it?

Also, I read that the USB data option should be used on the Icom, but when I do that, the waterfall on both programs black out and I can no longer see nor can I decode signals with the data option enabled. If it's not enabled, then there is no problem with the waterfall.

I am using Ham Radio Deluxe for transceiver control and run it when using JT65-HF, but not WSJT-X, as HRD is not supported. I am using the USB audio codecs for both sound input and sound output.

The USB cable from rig to computer should be all I need, no other connections should be necessary.

Is anyone using the Icom 7410 for these modes, and if so, would you please consider providing some hints?

I did read the manuals, by the way.

Thanks in advance.

 

[k7ng]

You may find that the internal audio decoder supplies levels way too high for any software application to handle. You can adjust the 'USB Transmit' level in the menu to any output power you desire but the receive has no such adjustment. I gave up and used an external audio interface with the analog audio off the 13-pin 'ACC' connector.

If your 7410 thinks it's transmitting (the red TX LED) then perhaps you have to make sure that you have selected the proper audio OUTPUT device in the WSJT setup. WSJT-X did find the USB audio device when I set it up, no problem. I could run WSJT-X either as a standalone CI-V control of the radio, or via DXLab Commander. I do not use HRD so can't help you there. I believe, however, that regardless of what application you are using to control the radio, you'd need to obtain and install the USB driver from Icom.

I hope this of some small help, it's the best I can do.

 

[chrissim]

Thanks for the reply. I'm pretty certain that I have input and output selected correctly. I did install the Icom USB drivers, and watched as it installed audio codecs. Not sure what's going on, but I have read where users are successfully implementing the 7410 for such modes with only a USB cable, which is one of the ideas behind the 7410. Various reviews report that this works.

The settings I use for the Icom (menu numbers) are as follows:

38 - on
39 - 50
40 - mic
41 - usb
42 - 19200
43 - 80
44 - on
45 - CI-V

The USB data option, which is enabled by holding down the USB button on the front of the rig, throws me for a loop. Those that use the Icom 7410 claim this is needed to use digital modes, but it doesn't work for me.

Suppose I'll consider getting the digital unit for the Yaesu and using that, but what a waste. I feel certain that the Icom can do this stand alone. I may need to dig deeper into the Icom settings and understand exactly what option 40 does.

Thanks again.

 

[chrissim]

Got it working. Option 40 in the Icom menu should be set to USB. RF power to full (100 watts) on the rig. Power out is controlled by the PC speaker slider. No ALC is engaged with full power and output controlled by PC. I transmitted with about 10 watts and made a contact. Had to put together information from various sources to make it work.

Thanks again.

 

[KC1EIL]

Chris, did you ever get your IC-7410 to transmit correctly? I am wondering what settings you used on the WSPR-X side to get the TX to trigger the radio properly. I used your menu settings on the radio, but can't seem to get the USB hook up to transmit.

Thanks,

Ryan

 

[chrissim]

Ryan:

That was a long ago and I no longer use that radio and I haven't used JT 65/9 in ages. If I remember correctly, I had a hard time using the WSJTX software, and instead used an alternative. I think it was called JT65-HF. However, I believe it's outdated now and most use K1JT's software.

If you join the yahoo Icom 7410 user group, they'll be able to help. The yahoo groups tend to be really good in that regard.

I'm sorry I can't offer you more, but I just don't remember at this point. I'll add this though: the 7410 is the only radio I regret selling. It's a good one and very versatile - hold on to it.

 

[N0IU]

Not sure what's going on, but I have read where users are successfully implementing the 7410 for such modes with only a USB cable, which is one of the ideas behind the 7410.

Glad you got it working and yes, I agree that the manual does not do the best job of explaining how this work.

Just so you know...

The USB connection does two things:
1) Allows you to control the radio just as if you were using the CI-V connection.
2) Enables you access the built-in sound card so you no longer need an outboard sound card interface.

Now throw in Menu items 40 (DATA OFF MOD) and 41 (DATA MOD). On my 7410, I have #40 set to MIC. That way when I am in USB or LSB for voice work, the radio is looking for audio input from the mic connector. For #41, I have that set to USB so the radio is looking for audio input/output via the USB connection. In order to enable this, you have to have the radio in USB-D (or LSB-D). The "D" indicates that you are using the DATA mode. The confusing thing is that PTT is handled through the CI-V part of the USB connection and audio input/output is handled through the data side. IOW, you can trigger the PTT no matter what mode you are using, USB or USB-D, but you won't be transmitting anything unless you have Menu #40 and #41 set correctly and have your mode set correctly.

Confused yet?

And FSK RTTY is absolutely supported by the 7410. AFSK or Audio Frequency Shift Keying works just like any other sound card mode (PSK31, JT65, etc) and you don't need any external hardware or interface other than the USB connection. It is important to note that in order to use AFSK RTTY, the radio MUST be in USB or LSB and NOT RTTY mode. For FSK RTTY, the radio needs to be in RTTY mode and it is looking for the RTTY keying signal and PTT via the 13-pin ACC port on the back of the rig only. FSK relies on a keying signal from a serial port (or USB-to-serial converter) on your computer and there is no audio involved other than getting the audio from the radio to the computer and that can be done via the USB connection. To key the radio, you will need some sort of very simple interface between the serial port and the radio. I use the one made by W3YY (FSK-CW PC Interface for Keying Ham Transmitters). I like it because it uses opto-isolators between the computer and radio so there is no direct electrical connection.

Clear as mud, eh?

 

[AK9R]

For FSK RTTY, the radio needs to be in RTTY mode and it is looking for the RTTY keying signal and PTT via the 13-pin ACC port on the back of the rig only. FSK relies on a keying signal from a serial port (or USB-to-serial converter) on your computer and there is no audio involved other than getting the audio from the radio to the computer and that can be done via the USB connection. To key the radio, you will need some sort of very simple interface between the serial port and the radio. I use the one made by W3YY (FSK-CW PC Interface for Keying Ham Transmitters). I like it because it uses opto-isolators between the computer and radio so there is no direct electrical connection.

I will second Scott's recommendation of the W3YY FSK-CW interface board. I use one with my Icom IC-7600 and it works perfectly with the MMTTY RTTY decode-encode program. The board was pretty easy to assemble using a low-wattage soldering iron.

I started out doing AFSK RTTY on the IC-7600 and was reasonably pleased with the results. But, the nice thing about FSK RTTY is that you don't have to fiddle with sound card settings or radio settings to get a good transmit signal. Just key the PTT on the accessory interface to put the radio into transmit mode and then toggle the FSK input to shift your diddles. I've worked several RTTY contests, I have WAS Digital with most of those contacts on RTTY, and I have 55 DX countries on RTTY. When Navassa Island (K1N) was on the air last year, my first contact with them was 30m RTTY.

 

[N0IU]

I've worked several RTTY contests, I have WAS Digital with most of those contacts on RTTY, and I have 55 DX countries on RTTY. When Navassa Island (K1N) was on the air last year, my first contact with them was 30m RTTY.

Congratulations on those achievements! I also have WAS Digital plus WAS RTTY. (Yes, they are two separate awards.) I have DXCC Digital and most of those are RTTY but unfortunately there is not a separate DXCC category just for RTTY because I do qualify for that as well. But also keep in mind I have been doing this for almost 25 years!

As far as contests, my favorite RTTY contest is coming up the first weekend in January, the ARRL RTTY Roundup. I did OK last year but there is always room for improvement! I have come in first place in Missouri a couple of times, but sadly I only came in 5th Place in the Midwest Division last year in the single operator low power category. But that's OK, there's always next year which is right around the corner!

Who says you can't do much with a 100 watts, a vertical and a dipole?

 

[AK9R]

Scott, you made me go look. Yes, I have WAS Digital and WAS RTTY on top of WAS Phone. I haven't done the analysis, but most of my WAS Digital contacts were on RTTY. I just don't spend much time working the sound card digital modes. Though my 80m Hellschreiber contact with the station at Hell, Michigan, during the middle of the day is a highlight of my sound card digital contacts.

What pushed me towards RTTY was the chase for the W1AW/p stations during 2014. I was having trouble breaking pile-ups using SSB when I noticed that some of the states I needed were spotted using RTTY. That led me to learning how to operate RTTY. And, that has led me towards DXing and contesting using RTTY.

All of this with an Icom IC-7600 running 100 watts into a dipole or vertical.

 

[chrissim]

I have always liked Icom radios. When I was contemplating a purchase between the FTDX 3000 and the 7600, the only thing that stopped me from getting the 7600 is that I felt Icom would come out with a replacement for it in a couple of years. I've played with the 7600, it's good stuff.

 

[AK9R]

There are many who think the IC-7600 has run its course and will be replaced soon. Icom, of course, isn't saying anything. On the bright side, Icom did update the firmware earlier this year and the new firmware adds a waterfall display to the spectrum scope. The new firmware also allows point-and-click tuning to signals on the display by plugging a mouse into the front USB port. I'm using a Logitech wireless mouse with the Logitech receiver plugged into that USB port and it works fine. A few new CI-V commands were added with new firmware and major radio control, logging, and contesting programs are taking advantage of the new commands.

Icom watchers are keeping a close eye on the IC-7300 that was shown at the Tokyo Hamfair back in August. The 7300 is an SDR radio. The received signal goes through a band pass filter and then is directly sampled by an analog-to-digital converter. The rest of the signal processing is in software. By contrast, the 7600 routes the received signal through various mixers and filters before it gets to the ADC. The display on the 7300 is also a touch screen and the videos of the screen in action that Icom has released look very interesting. Based on conversion from the Japanese prices being discussed, the 7300 will probably be around $1400-1800 in the U.S. market.

Many think that the IC-7300 is the future direction of Icom's HF transceiver lines. Assuming the IC-7300 is successful, I think we can expect to see new radios in the IC-7600 and IC-7800 class that follow the 7300's design direction.