IDHS Distric 4 Communications

[Steveb05]

I'm currently leading up the Communications unit for IDHS district 4 Based out of the Lafayette Fire Department. I have been tasked to find a stand alone communications system for our Incident management team to function at an event the Hoosier Safe T system is loaded up or not functioning. I'm thinking on the line of a Cache of XTS 5000 Moto. VHF FPP portables. Is VHF a good alternative to the trunked system or should I be thinking UHF. Thank you for your input in advance.

Thanks Steve

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Are there any Type III COMMLs on this forum

 

[mjdewey]

IDHS District 4

Steve,

Contact me by regular e-mail at kc9aom@comcast.net for information to your request.

 

[AK9R]

Why VHF? Would the NPSPAC 800 MHz frequencies suit your needs? They should already be programmed into your SAFE-T radios.

 

[Steveb05]

Why VHF? Would the NPSPAC 800 MHz frequencies suit your needs? They should already be programmed into your SAFE-T radios.

You are correct we can use the NiSPAC freqs but what happens if we are deployed into an area where the SAFE T system is down and the local agencies are already using the NISPAC frequencies

We have been advised by our fiscal agent that communications equipment that require an ID # will no longer be funded by IDHS

Thanks Steve

 

[brainslushy]

Hello District 4.

District 10 Comm Unit here. I'm also a COML and have been looking at obtaining a cache of VHF or UHF radios for this same purpose. We're thinking the same thing here.

Unfortunately I have not been able to convince the right people that we have a real concern here. Everyone in our DRTF is very reliant on the premise that where ever we go the SAFE-T system will functioning and beyond that, believe that use of the Conventional NPSTC channels will available for just our our use.

 

[usswood]

I would seriously look at this company...most of their equipment is FCC approved, rugged and will work either VHF or UHF depending on your needs...China Two Way Radios,Mobile Transceiver Handheld Walkie Talkies & Interphone

 

[kb9sxk]

I'm currently leading up the Communications unit for IDHS district 4 Based out of the Lafayette Fire Department. I have been tasked to find a stand alone communications system for our Incident management team to function at an event the Hoosier Safe T system is loaded up or not functioning. I'm thinking on the line of a Cache of XTS 5000 Moto. VHF FPP portables. Is VHF a good alternative to the trunked system or should I be thinking UHF. Thank you for your input in advance.

Thanks Steve

.
Are there any Type III COMMLs on this forum

I am one of the 2 DHS COML Instructors in Indiana.

And there a few COML grads on this board that i know of. Im sure any one of us would help you out.

My first answer to you is why spend that kind of cash? There are options that fall between XTS prices and Chinese equipment.

 

[pickles37]

Thanks for coming to RR to ask for advice!

For me the main questions are:

1) Do you need a repeater or is simplex sufficient?
2) With whom do you want to be able to interoperate (federal agencies, local agencies, etc)?

Some things to note:

a) The VHF NPSPAC frequencies are simplex only, while UHF offers repeater pairs
b) Federal agencies seem to be in general moving towards P25 on VHF
c) A good investment might be in bridges that let you interconnect radios simply by plugging in 2 or more units (e.g. an 800Mhz and VHF)
d) If you have a big budget you might consider the new mutliband radios - e.g. Thales Liberty or Motorola APX7000
e) Always go FPP if possible - hugely increases flexibility

Overall I think VHF is a good bet - gives access to lots of local fire departments, statewide frequencies, NPSPAC frequencies, even local amateur radio repeaters. (at least at the moment - things could look differently after the narrowbanding deadline). I would go for FPP XTS5000s, although these are quite expensive!

 

[markanderson]

what is the frequency. have the talkgroup

 

[Steveb05]

I am one of the 2 DHS COML Instructors in Indiana.

And there a few COML grads on this board that i know of. Im sure any one of us would help you out.

My first answer to you is why spend that kind of cash? There are options that fall between XTS prices and Chinese equipment.

Adam I was in the Spring COMML class in INDY. Im currently working on my task book.

 

[Steveb05]

Thanks for coming to RR to ask for advice!

For me the main questions are:

1) Do you need a repeater or is simplex sufficient?
2) With whom do you want to be able to interoperate (federal agencies, local agencies, etc)?

Some things to note:

a) The VHF NPSPAC frequencies are simplex only, while UHF offers repeater pairs
b) Federal agencies seem to be in general moving towards P25 on VHF
c) A good investment might be in bridges that let you interconnect radios simply by plugging in 2 or more units (e.g. an 800Mhz and VHF)
d) If you have a big budget you might consider the new mutliband radios - e.g. Thales Liberty or Motorola APX7000
e) Always go FPP if possible - hugely increases flexibility

Overall I think VHF is a good bet - gives access to lots of local fire departments, statewide frequencies, NPSPAC frequencies, even local amateur radio repeaters. (at least at the moment - things could look differently after the narrowbanding deadline). I would go for FPP XTS5000s, although these are quite expensive!

You are making some good sugestions.
I'm thinking Simplex communications will be suffecient
It has been a tough sell to purchase a VHF cache of portables I'm working on a Quote one a couple of XTS 5000s FPP and then a balance of up to 8 XTS 2500s. We have 3 gateways that can be used if nessary. Mater of fact I have one I'm playing with at his time The patch cables ar all MOTO . I would prefer to stay with MOTO if all possible due to the familuarity with MOTO. I currently have MTS 2000s XTS 3000s-5000s and some XTS 2500s in the inventory.

Thanks for all your sugestions

 

[Steveb05]

Hello District 4.

District 10 Comm Unit here. I'm also a COML and have been looking at obtaining a cache of VHF or UHF radios for this same purpose. We're thinking the same thing here.

Unfortunately I have not been able to convince the right people that we have a real concern here. Everyone in our DRTF is very reliant on the premise that where ever we go the SAFE-T system will functioning and beyond that, believe that use of the Conventional NPSTC channels will available for just our our use.

Hello District 10

My radio Techs are tiring to convince me that the NPSTC channels will always be available But I'm not convinced that will always be the case. I’m fortunate that my Task Force leader has been accommodating to my pleas that we cannot always count on the Safe T system will always available for communications. And I have been relentless in my pleas that we need a simplex back up.

 

[mjdewey]

I am a COM-L in Madison County and the District 6 Communications Chairman.
We are using the NPSPAC Direct simplex channels as a backup. This way you
can have one radio do both the SAFE-T system and the NPSPAC channels.

If you program them for NPSPAC only you do not need radio ID'S.

 

[pickles37]

I think the situation with the 800MHz NPSPAC channels is very confusing. When I enquired about them about a year ago, I was told that whilst the frequencies are technically "available" to everyone (i.e. according to the FCC any public safety licensee is licensed to use them), their use in Indiana is coordinated by the ISP, meaning that at least for using the repeaters, one has to get permission on a case-by-case basis from ISP (indeed ISP wouldn't guarantee the repeaters would even be switched on). For simplex, the situation is unclear (i.e. whether use has to be coordinated with ISP or not). At the same time, we have IPSC pushing people to use NSPACs instead of SAFET since they have run out of IDs. So right now, I would think the NPSPACs are not a reliable back up (i.e. if SAFET got overloaded or went down, which it could very well do in a disaster, ISP might just claim all the NPSPACs for their own use - and simplex would be impossible if all the repeaters were in use on the same frequencies). If anyone has more recent or different information on this though please correct me.

 

[kb9sxk]

The ISP has no more of a claim to those than any other entity.

 

[kb9sxk]

Hello District 4.

District 10 Comm Unit here. I'm also a COML and have been looking at obtaining a cache of VHF or UHF radios for this same purpose. We're thinking the same thing here.

Unfortunately I have not been able to convince the right people that we have a real concern here. Everyone in our DRTF is very reliant on the premise that where ever we go the SAFE-T system will functioning and beyond that, believe that use of the Conventional NPSTC channels will available for just our our use.

Don't you have work to do?

I have 15 uhf portables that will go with them whether or not they want them.

 

[pickles37]

The ISP has no more of a claim to those than any other entity.

That is correct in theory! But that doesn't mean the state can't determine policy for how the channels are used, and in Indiana it seems ISP are the ones that determine who gets to use them and who doesn't

 

[kb9sxk]

That is correct in theory! But that doesn't mean the state can't determine policy for how the channels are used, and in Indiana it seems ISP are the ones that determine who gets to use them and who doesn't

No, it does not seem that way.

 

[jerk]

No, it does not seem that way.

You do have to call ISP correct for them to turn the repeaters on correct?

And they could very well refuse you or make their business a priority... what are you going to do call a cop, call the state op center staffed by some retired ISP employees.
And in reality I think those repeaters/frequencies will be jam-packed in an emergency communications failure.

Best option = provide your own means of communications.

 

[kb9sxk]

You do have to call ISP correct for them to turn the repeaters on correct?

And they could very well refuse you or make their business a priority... what are you going to do call a cop, call the state op center staffed by some retired ISP employees.
And in reality I think those repeaters/frequencies will be jam-packed in an emergency communications failure.

Best option = provide your own means of communications.

Down here the are on 24 / 7 Also, Vanderburgh County keeps theirs on.

You are correct about them being very popular.