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I'll beat the PRO-97 rebanding dead horse again

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DaveIN

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OK, I'll beat the dead horse, and yes I know the rebanding has yet to be finalized, but I still want to know what the "official" statis is for the PRO-97. Will RadioShack cover the rebanding Logic and Display rework? Not a word is mentioned about the 2055 for the same issue. People are still buying these radios "new" from RadioShack. Something needs to be stated about support for this issue beyond a "maybe" that was issued on StrongSignals.com news item last year.

Comments?
 

hiegtx

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rdale said:
I think the key to Radio Shack's answer concerning the Pro-97 is in this sentence, from the above link:
"For ALL other (non-digital) RadioShack scanners (i.e., PRO-91/92/93/94/95, PRO-2052, etc.) the radios will not scan to the correct channel when the system assigns a call to a channel that was previously on a frequency between 866-869 MHz and was retuned to a new, rebanded frequency 15 MHz lower between 851-854 MHz. ..."
The 97 was not mentioned specifically but their text says ALL other (non-digital) Radio Shack scanners... By my read, that would mean the Pro-97 falls in the group that will not be supported according to current plans.

If I'm correct, that's too bad. It's a good hand held scanner that would be relegated to obsolescence before it's time. And I say that even though I don't own one, or have plans to buy one.
 

DaveIN

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Not a good answer for those who will still be within the 1 year warrenty and want to use it on an analog Motorola system.

Is it possible that the 3 table method could work on an analog system, or that GRE has a method to make it do the corect bandplan 15 MHz lower?
 

Gilligan

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Okay, I've got a question. Suppose you plug all the system channels into the radio instead of just the control channel. In fact, suppose you don't program the control channel (forget the fact that it changes sometimes...). Won't the radio still scan the trunked voice channels and read their TG IDs just like it does when you hold on them?
 

scnnr

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The way this rebanding thing is dragging on down in the States I don't know why you even worry about it. Seems like they are a long way away from having a system finally up and running to test out your scanners.
After all scanners like the Pro 97 can be had for $150 when they come on sale. Not like you are loosing $500 or so.
 

W4KRR

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Gilligan said:
Okay, I've got a question. Suppose you plug all the system channels into the radio instead of just the control channel. In fact, suppose you don't program the control channel (forget the fact that it changes sometimes...). Won't the radio still scan the trunked voice channels and read their TG IDs just like it does when you hold on them?
You might think so, but no. Because the scanner doesn't go to the correct channel based on the frequency. It goes to the correct channel based on a number that's assigned to the frequency. It's those numbers that will change, so that after rebanding, the numbers assigned to the frequencies will be different than before rebanding
 

dsnymj

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Gilligan said:
Okay, I've got a question. Suppose you plug all the system channels into the radio instead of just the control channel. In fact, suppose you don't program the control channel (forget the fact that it changes sometimes...). Won't the radio still scan the trunked voice channels and read their TG IDs just like it does when you hold on them?
Actually...

If you program the bank (and/or the frequencies) as conventional and lock out the current control channel - thus, not actually "tracking" the TRS - you should be still be able to scan a system like we used to before Uniden and GRE (and Trunker) brought trunk "trackers" to market. It's difficult to follow a conversation on a busy system this way but it *can* be done on an all-analog system.

If the radio is capable of decoding the TGID info riding along with the voice (like the Pro-92, for instance) with the channels configured in this manner, you might get (somewhat) accurate TG information to display *but* I doubt it will work because you'd likely have to flag the channel as Motorola to enable the decode.
 

dougjgray

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Gilligan said:
Okay, I've got a question. Suppose you plug all the system channels into the radio instead of just the control channel. In fact, suppose you don't program the control channel (forget the fact that it changes sometimes...). Won't the radio still scan the trunked voice channels and read their TG IDs just like it does when you hold on them?

I believe the talk groups will display atleast they do in manual mode on a motorola frequency. You can do it this way locking out control channels. The only negative you may miss a response once in a while if it changes to another channel.

OOPs I should have said the Talk group IDS will display but nut the text tags
 
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YFZBOB

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PRO-97 & Rebanding
Posted on 09/30/2005 16:15 EDT
Our thanks to the "GRE Digital Scanner Design Team" for providing the following news item about RadioShack's PRO-97 and how it will my handle the 800 MHz rebanding issue:

RadioShack is continually staying abreast of the 800MHz rebanding program. We consult with industry experts regularly and are keeping a close eye on the progress of the entire rebanding effort.

Since complete details of the Motorola rebanded trunking channel plan are not yet available it is now obvious that no one can confirm for certain that any scanner can be updated or adapted after rebanding. Once the first fully rebanded systems are activated we will be in a much better position to assess the impact on our 800 MHz scanning receivers. Here is what we do know:

1. It is likely that Motorola systems with channels currently between 851-861 MHz will still function in the PRO-97 after rebanding is finished.
2. LTR and EDACS 800 MHz functionality should not be affected - just program new frequencies as they are changed in the system.
3. The PRO-97 as currently designed will probably NOT be able to handle the new bandplan for Motorola systems that are currently operating with some or all of their system channels between 866-869 MHz. These frequencies will be relocated 15 MHz down to 851-854 MHz, which requires a new 800 MHz trunking bandplan in Motorola trunked radio systems. That bandplan will not be known until Motorola installs their first few systems and we (all) get a change to see what they are doing. The 800 MHz trunking bandplan is hard coded into the radio's firmware, and cannot be changed by the end user.

If the new bandplan cannot be trunked with the PRO-97's existing hardware, RadioShack (like everyone else) would need to design new firmware (and possibly a revised hardware design). Twice in the past, RadioShack has offered a board swap program to update an existing scanner to new, improved, specifications. In those cases, there was no charge for the new board (old board must be returned) and RadioShack paid shipping both ways if the customer carried the scanner into a local store. There was a minimum service charge $39.99 and the board exchange was only done at our Fort Worth Service facility.

Again, let us remind everyone this is what we've done in the past - the actual details of any update program have NOT yet been determined, but we expect it will be along these lines.
 

DaveIN

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YFZBOB said:
PRO-97 & Rebanding
Posted on 09/30/2005 16:15 EDT
Our thanks to the "GRE Digital Scanner Design Team" for providing the following news item about RadioShack's PRO-97 and how it will my handle the 800 MHz rebanding issue:

RadioShack is continually staying abreast of the 800MHz rebanding program. We consult with industry experts regularly and are keeping a close eye on the progress of the entire rebanding effort.

Since complete details of the Motorola rebanded trunking channel plan are not yet available it is now obvious that no one can confirm for certain that any scanner can be updated or adapted after rebanding. Once the first fully rebanded systems are activated we will be in a much better position to assess the impact on our 800 MHz scanning receivers. Here is what we do know:

1. It is likely that Motorola systems with channels currently between 851-861 MHz will still function in the PRO-97 after rebanding is finished.
2. LTR and EDACS 800 MHz functionality should not be affected - just program new frequencies as they are changed in the system.
3. The PRO-97 as currently designed will probably NOT be able to handle the new bandplan for Motorola systems that are currently operating with some or all of their system channels between 866-869 MHz. These frequencies will be relocated 15 MHz down to 851-854 MHz, which requires a new 800 MHz trunking bandplan in Motorola trunked radio systems. That bandplan will not be known until Motorola installs their first few systems and we (all) get a change to see what they are doing. The 800 MHz trunking bandplan is hard coded into the radio's firmware, and cannot be changed by the end user.

If the new bandplan cannot be trunked with the PRO-97's existing hardware, RadioShack (like everyone else) would need to design new firmware (and possibly a revised hardware design). Twice in the past, RadioShack has offered a board swap program to update an existing scanner to new, improved, specifications. In those cases, there was no charge for the new board (old board must be returned) and RadioShack paid shipping both ways if the customer carried the scanner into a local store. There was a minimum service charge $39.99 and the board exchange was only done at our Fort Worth Service facility.

Again, let us remind everyone this is what we've done in the past - the actual details of any update program have NOT yet been determined, but we expect it will be along these lines.
As I said, this message is allmost a year old, inconclusive, and does not follow the official information on the RadioShack rebanding web page that is more up to date. Nothing is mentioned about the PRO-2055 and I had posted to Strong Signals about it and did not get any answer there. The GRE development team needs to follow up on this message.
 

rdale

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But rebanding hasn't hit, so making things "more conclusive" is simply not possible... I'm not sure what you are looking for - that's an official reponse from RS (and the only one referring to the Pro97.)
 

Gilligan

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dsnymj said:
If you program the bank (and/or the frequencies) as conventional and lock out the current control channel - thus, not actually "tracking" the TRS - you should be still be able to scan a system like we used to before Uniden and GRE (and Trunker) brought trunk "trackers" to market. It's difficult to follow a conversation on a busy system this way but it *can* be done on an all-analog system.

If the radio is capable of decoding the TGID info riding along with the voice (like the Pro-92, for instance) with the channels configured in this manner, you might get (somewhat) accurate TG information to display *but* I doubt it will work because you'd likely have to flag the channel as Motorola to enable the decode.
I'm talking about flagging each as a motorola channel. Basically, answer this question: What would happen if you set up a motorola system in the scanner but left out the control channels? Wouldn't it scan the voice channels and decode the talkgroup IDs just like normal? I believe the control channel would be the place to park the scanner on for the most accuracy, but I think the scanner should still scan the voice channels properly.

And as far as I know, the "channels" in the 800 band plan are more or less for the control channel to refer to the voice channels, so the scanner should just be looking at frequencies. It could be that you'd have to plug in different frequencies if the table is different, but I'm not sure.
 

W4KRR

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Gilligan said:
I'm talking about flagging each as a motorola channel. Basically, answer this question: What would happen if you set up a motorola system in the scanner but left out the control channels? Wouldn't it scan the voice channels and decode the talkgroup IDs just like normal? I believe the control channel would be the place to park the scanner on for the most accuracy, but I think the scanner should still scan the voice channels properly.
No. If you set up and scan a bank of frequencies, and set everything up as "Motorola" and leave out the control channels, it will just scan and scan, and never stop on anything, because there's no control channel to tell the scanner what frequency to go to. I tried this on my PRO-97. If you just park it on a frequency that's flagged as Motorola, you won't hear anything. If you set the mode to "FM", you will hear traffic but you won't see any talkgroups displayed. Just like before we had trunk tracking scanners!
 

Gilligan

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W4KRR said:
No. If you set up and scan a bank of frequencies, and set everything up as "Motorola" and leave out the control channels, it will just scan and scan, and never stop on anything, because there's no control channel to tell the scanner what frequency to go to. I tried this on my PRO-97. If you just park it on a frequency that's flagged as Motorola, you won't hear anything. If you set the mode to "FM", you will hear traffic but you won't see any talkgroups displayed. Just like before we had trunk tracking scanners!
Okay. It's been a while since I had my Pro-95 and I actually tried this tonight on my 246T and found the same results. Oh well, it was a theory...
 

rdale

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The original GRE scanner used the low-speed data included on old Motorola trunked systems to do that, such an option won't work these days (and it wasn't good to begin with.)
 
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