I'm a dumb cop. Help me out. Motorola users can't receive my Kenwood Transmissions

[ARParkRanger]

Hi there,

I preface this with that I do not have a super strong understanding and working knowledge of radios. However, no one in my department does either as we are work statewide across multiple dispatch centers, radio systems, etc. We generally just find something that supposedly works and run it. We do not have an internal communications guy that programs our stuff. It is generally done by our vehicle outfitter when vehicles are purchased and equipped. It's all done by low-bid, so it could very well be done poorly.

My truck has a Kenwood NX3720 in it. I can talk back and forth with dispatch all day long. Apparently, none of the county deputies can hear my transmissions. They just hear dispatch talking back to me and I can hear all the deputies radio traffic. The county deputies are running Motorola radios. When they turn on their Kenwood portables, they can hear me. I'm just not coming through on their mobile Motorola units.

I'm curious if this is a programming issue on my end, their end, or I need to get my department to buy me a Motorola. We're on DMR. Based on my research, it seems like maybe there's a PL or other privacy feature thats blocking me out of being received by the Motorolas?

I'd appreciate any advice and help with this! I had no idea for the last 6 months that my backup couldn't hear me and it's rather concerning. If I have to buy a new radio, it'll be a process for my department so I'm trying to avoid that of course.

 

[R8000]

You really need to push this issue with your supervisor and upper management. This is a unacceptable situation.

There's so many variables that can cause this to happen. Without a proper RF technician involved with your agency, it will continue to be a mess.
I hate unions, I really do. But if it goes unresolved, you may want to get them involved (if you have one) to have your agency employ a qualified RF technician on staff. At least then you have a resource in your agency to look into these sorts of problems.

Having the vehicle equipment installer also double as the radio programmer is fine, if the installer is also a qualified RF technician. If it's just a pair of install hands that can crimp wire splices and run stinger screws into plastic trim, that isn't going to work.

The fact you have to resort to a hobbyist website for technical help with your state agency is not good. Just be warned, there are some seasoned RF technicians who use this site, and there's also many many people on here who really don't know radios and systems but can program a scanner and will argue till there are blue in the face that they are an engineer when they are just a hobbyist.

As a RF tech for 15+ years, there's so many variables here that is unknown. Not to mention the legal questions about having another outside source start poking at the problem. Your agency RF tech (if you had one) would be talking to the county sheriff's dept radio tech to work out the programming concerns.

Not knowing your system, or their system I don't want to offer suggestions on programming that could make the situation worse and lead to someone being hurt or killed. I hope other users here consider this before they offer suggestions.

I can understand your frustration and safety concerns, but you really need to aggressively push this issue with your state government agency to fix. That is the only proper way to handle it.

Good luck !

 

[kd4efm]

Basically what was said above.
Would help to know what area you're working in (state).

The other that hits me first, Kenwood hears Kenwood bit not Motorola, encryption was the first thought, buy that rules out dispatch.

Soo good brain cells on this.

 

[ARParkRanger]

Basically what was said above.
Would help to know what area you're working in (state).

The other that hits me first, Kenwood hears Kenwood bit not Motorola, encryption was the first thought, buy that rules out dispatch.

Soo good brain cells on this.

Well Kenwood hears everything. It just the county Motorolas that aren't hearing me transmit through my Kenwood.

You really need to push this issue with your supervisor and upper management. This is a unacceptable situation.

There's so many variables that can cause this to happen. Without a proper RF technician involved with your agency, it will continue to be a mess.
I hate unions, I really do. But if it goes unresolved, you may want to get them involved (if you have one) to have your agency employ a qualified RF technician on staff. At least then you have a resource in your agency to look into these sorts of problems.

Having the vehicle equipment installer also double as the radio programmer is fine, if the installer is also a qualified RF technician. If it's just a pair of install hands that can crimp wire splices and run stinger screws into plastic trim, that isn't going to work.

The fact you have to resort to a hobbyist website for technical help with your state agency is not good. Just be warned, there are some seasoned RF technicians who use this site, and there's also many many people on here who really don't know radios and systems but can program a scanner and will argue till there are blue in the face that they are an engineer when they are just a hobbyist.

As a RF tech for 15+ years, there's so many variables here that is unknown. Not to mention the legal questions about having another outside source start poking at the problem. Your agency RF tech (if you had one) would be talking to the county sheriff's dept radio tech to work out the programming concerns.

Not knowing your system, or their system I don't want to offer suggestions on programming that could make the situation worse and lead to someone being hurt or killed. I hope other users here consider this before they offer suggestions.

I can understand your frustration and safety concerns, but you really need to aggressively push this issue with your state government agency to fix. That is the only proper way to handle it.

Good luck !

I know it's not ideal. I've got some local radio shops that other departments use that I'll be hitting up, I'm just trying to understand what's going on. I intend to push it and make sure it gets taken care of for sure. I appreciate your feedback

I'd also add that my county sheriff's office also does not have an onstaff programmer. We're pretty podunk in this area

 

[ramal121]

DMR is a common protocol but the way Kenwood and Mototola implement this protocol is different. Your problem is in the way talk groups are set up. They can be made to work together but you'll need someone who really understands the radios and the software to make the necessary corrections.

 

[mmckenna]

This is why it's important to have one trusted radio tech you can work with.
This is obviously a programming issue on the radios (Motorola and/or Kenwood)
Your comment about "We generally just find something that supposedly works and run it" is scary on many levels. I understand budget constraints, but life safety should take priority.

Don't let a radio shop tell you that buying a certain brand radio will fix all your issues. That's sales talk.
A good radio tech could probably sort this out in a few minutes.

 

[kb4mdz]

This is why it's important to have one trusted radio tech you can work with.
This is obviously a programming issue on the radios (Motorola and/or Kenwood)
Your comment about "We generally just find something that supposedly works and run it" is scary on many levels. I understand budget constraints, but life safety should take priority.

Don't let a radio shop tell you that buying a certain brand radio will fix all your issues. That's sales talk.
A good radio tech could probably sort this out in a few minutes.

Which is why you don't ask your radio salesman for technical answers, and collaterally, why radio salespeople don't like customers asking questions of the technicians. Techs will give you a straight answer, even if it doesn't involve buying something. Salesman will never give you an answer that doesn't involve you buying something.

 

[ARParkRanger]

Your comment about "We generally just find something that supposedly works and run it" is scary on many levels. I understand budget constraints, but life safety should take priority.

To be fair, I think it was more like the radio techs installed a compatible radio with the county the truck was going to, then were able to contact dispatch, and assumed it was all good.

 

[mmckenna]

To be fair, I think it was more like the radio techs installed a compatible radio with the county the truck was going to, then were able to contact dispatch, and assumed it was all good.

I get it. Yeah, some state agencies around me have done the same thing. If the county you are in has their own radio shop, it would be good to sit down and have a visit with them. Usually those guys are happy to help and could probably fix the issue quickly.

Programming radios can be difficult. There's a thousand little settings that can screw things up. A trained eye could pick it out pretty quickly.
Take the guys at the county shop a dozen donuts, coffee, or if on a Friday, a 6 pack, and you'll probably get all the help you'll ever need.

 

[Baker845]

working with both Kenwood and Motorola radio's, this does sound like a programming issue. If it's DMR system, if radio is programmed correctly it doesn't matter if Kenwood or Motorola is used. cheapest thing would be getting the programming fixed.

 

[tvengr]

Can you let us know your agency and the deputies' agency so I can look up the specs in the database? If using a repeater, you could be transmitting on the base frequency, not the repeater input frequency. A nearby portable will hear you, but you will not be heard by mobile units unless they are close to you. It could be PL tones. Without the above information, it is very difficult to make suggestions. I agree that your best bet would be to find a good radio tech. There are many variables.

 

[N5XPM]

Can you let us know your agency and the deputies' agency so I can look up the specs in the database? If using a repeater, you could be transmitting on the base frequency, not the repeater input frequency. A nearby portable will hear you, but you will not be heard by mobile units unless they are close to you. It could be PL tones. Without the above information, it is very difficult to make suggestions. I agree that your best bet would be to find a good radio tech. There are many variables.

This is the correct path.
If is is DMR, it has color codes and talk groups to program correctly.
If RR members know the agency, an RR member might be in the area and be able to add some information.
The repeater works, some radios work well and some do not.
This appears to be a radio programming problem based on what I have seen here so far.
More than once the person with the incorrectly programmed radio (who doesn't know how to program radios) blames the problem on the person with the correctly programmed radio, which makes the problem worse.
Higher rank does not fix incorrect radio programming, but it does sometimes drive needless expenditures on complicated new systems.

 

[tvengr]

The NX3720 is also capable of analog. The OP says he is using DMR. He didn't specify what the deputies are using.

 

[Ghost117]

Sounds like the channel you are using to talk to dispatch is programmed to be simplex on the repeater output frequency only. So it's just you talking straight to dispatch, not going through the repeater. Your transmission is not being rebroadcasted to everyone else, hence why no one else can hear you, only dispatch. Whoever programmed the radio didn't bother to put in the repeater input frequency on that channel for some reason.

 

[wd8chl]

One odd thing about Kenwood DMR-for some strange reason a DMR channel will default to NO talkgroup ID. Radios set that way will talk to each other, but not other brands, which as far as I've seen, all default to TG 1. You have to define a talkgroup (whatever TG the rest of the radios are set for), then reference that TG in the channel DMR programming (selcall on PTT, group call, and select the TG# from the list.)
Don't forget to stay away from things like dual slot direct mode, open voice channel mode, and autoslot. Those options are cool, but probably won't work with other brands.

 

[ramal121]

One odd thing about Kenwood DMR-for some strange reason a DMR channel will default to NO talkgroup ID. Radios set that way will talk to each other, but not other brands, which as far as I've seen, all default to TG 1. You have to define a talkgroup (whatever TG the rest of the radios are set for), then reference that TG in the channel DMR programming (selcall on PTT, group call, and select the TG# from the list.)
Don't forget to stay away from things like dual slot direct mode, open voice channel mode, and autoslot. Those options are cool, but probably won't work with other brands.

That is probably your issue. Kenwoods by default have open voice channel mode enabled by default. This is a digital "monitor" mode. You can make a group sans a talkgroup assigned to it and all radios communicate just fine.

Mototrbo 2.0 has OVCM but it is off by default so normally you must define a talkgroup to make things work.
Mototrbo 16 doesn't even have the OVCM option.

So yes the Kenwoods should have the OVCM unchecked and a talkgroup added to the channel as stated above.

No clue how dispatch hears the Kenwoods unless it also passes all (or none) talkgroups to the console.