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Industrial Electronics (Conway) NXDN Trunked

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,350
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
#61
Construction Notifications were filed with the FCC suggesting (truthfully or not) that the following have sites been built out. Anywhere from none-to-all may be online. We already know Great Bend is online as it is listed in the DB.

Little Marsh (Tioga) - WRCA568
461.525
461.95
463.300
463.85
464.925

Smethport (McKean) - WRCB769
461.6625
462.0875
463.2375
464.5875

Oxford (Chester) - WRCD363
452.075
461.7625

Renovo (Clinton) WRCD536
461.175
461.500
462.275
463.225
463.75

Coudersport (Potter) - WRCA569
461.4375
461.7125
461.9875
463.4875
464.6625

Reading (Berks) - WRBX326
462.125
463.25
463.65

Great Bend (Susquehanna) - WPJZ540
461.075
461.75
463.400
464.925

Cornwall (Lancaster) - WRBX792
461.100
463.75

Minersville (Schuylkill) - WRBX658
461.6375
463.6375
464.2625
464.6625
464.9625

Harrisburg (Dauphin) - WQCR749
461.475
463.775
 

u2brent

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jul 17, 2010
Messages
1,180
Location
KRWDPAXKRS1
#63
Been monitoring..

Oxford (Chester) - WRCD363
452.075
461.7625

For some time. Have yet to pick up anything.. :cry:

Gonna have to load up all those frequencies in a system and see if anything pops up during my travels..
Reading (Berks) - WRBX326
Cornwall (Lancaster) - WRBX792
Harrisburg (Dauphin) - WQCR749


:D
 

JRBarrett

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
9
Location
Elmira, Ny
#65
I can add some information on two of the Industrial Electronics Nexedge 9600 sites in northern Pennsylvania.

My monitoring location is in Elmira, NY (Chemung County), which is just a few miles north of the Pennsylvania border, adjoining Bradford and Tioga counties.

Monitoring equipment includes an RSP1A SDR, running SDR Console and DSDPlus Fastlane, and a recently-acquired Uniden SDS200 scanner - both fed by a roof mounted discone antenna

The data was derived from an initial analysis of the CCs with DSDPlus, followed by an LCN search on all licensed channels for each site using the SDS200.

I worked as a Motorola LMR tech in this area from 1982 to 1990, and am very familiar with most of the hilltop tower sites in both Tioga and Bradford counties. The two sites detailed below also host county fire and EMS base stations which are easily heard at my location

The first site is in Sayre, PA. (Bradford County), located on a hill known locally as "Roundtop".

CC is 451.750, identified as "L264-17", with an NL of: "4, 5, 18, 24, 25". The associated FCC license is: WPQJ229.

The second site is in Tioga County, in Jackson Summit, which is known locally as "Tower Hill".

CC is 461.9375, identified as "L264-5" with an NL of: "4, 17, 21, 24, 25". The associated FCC license is: WQLR555

The results of a 24-hour LCN search on each site with the SDS200:

Sayre:

451.4250 LCN 739 RAN 17
451.7500 LCN 141 RAN 17 (CC)
461.1000 LCN 489 RAN 17
464.2250 LCN 231 RAN 17

Jackson Summit:

460.7875 LCN 464 RAN 5
461.9375 LCN 556 RAN 5 (CC)
463.4125 LCN 674 RAN 5
464.4125 LCN 754 RAN 5

There is one licensed frequency at Sayre that appears to be inactive, and 4 at Jackson Summit with no activity.

The traffic on both sites appears to be running in parallel.

My initial monitoring with DSDPlus showed many active talk groups and radio assignments. Once I had the LCN's and Talk group numbers, I set up the two sites in the scanner, and have heard a great deal of voice traffic on the following talk groups:

11
131
153
191
242
381
486
841

Virtually all of these talk groups appear to be associated with natural gas drilling operations (fracking), which is a major industry in northern Pennsylvania. Groups 131 and 381 in particular are being used by trucks hauling fresh water to various drilling sites. Fracking requires enormous quantities of water, and drilling operations go on 24-7. Even today (Easter Sunday), the talk groups are extremely busy.

Typical calls to "Base" include site location, time of arrival and departure, gallons of water offloaded, and total mileage.

I see in the FCC records for both counties that there are several other sites licensed to Robert J. and Thomas J. Conway in the two counties, including Monroeton (Kellogg Mountain near Towanda), Troy (Armenia Mountain) Canton, Wellsboro, Antrim and Little Marsh. These would be out of range for reception at my home location in Elmira, with the possible exception of the site in Troy.

Checking these other sites would require taking my SDR and a laptop on a road trip - something I might do in coming weeks if time allows.

Sayre (Site 17) and Jackson Summit (Site 5) are in each other's neighbor lists. I would assume that unknown sites 4, 18, 21, 24 and 25 include some of the above locations.

As it happens, the Conways have a site licensed here in Chemung County, NY WQWE370 (Horseheads), just 6 miles from here. This may be part of the same Nexedge 9600 system, but I have been monitoring the 4 licensed frequencies for several days, and have seen absolutely no activity whatsoever.

Jim Barrett
 

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,350
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
#66
I can add some information on two of the Industrial Electronics Nexedge 9600 sites in northern Pennsylvania.

My monitoring location is in Elmira, NY (Chemung County), which is just a few miles north of the Pennsylvania border, adjoining Bradford and Tioga counties.

Monitoring equipment includes an RSP1A SDR, running SDR Console and DSDPlus Fastlane, and a recently-acquired Uniden SDS200 scanner - both fed by a roof mounted discone antenna

The data was derived from an initial analysis of the CCs with DSDPlus, followed by an LCN search on all licensed channels for each site using the SDS200.

I worked as a Motorola LMR tech in this area from 1982 to 1990, and am very familiar with most of the hilltop tower sites in both Tioga and Bradford counties. The two sites detailed below also host county fire and EMS base stations which are easily heard at my location

The first site is in Sayre, PA. (Bradford County), located on a hill known locally as "Roundtop".

CC is 451.750, identified as "L264-17", with an NL of: "4, 5, 18, 24, 25". The associated FCC license is: WPQJ229.

The second site is in Tioga County, in Jackson Summit, which is known locally as "Tower Hill".

CC is 461.9375, identified as "L264-5" with an NL of: "4, 17, 21, 24, 25". The associated FCC license is: WQLR555

The results of a 24-hour LCN search on each site with the SDS200:

Sayre:

451.4250 LCN 739 RAN 17
451.7500 LCN 141 RAN 17 (CC)
461.1000 LCN 489 RAN 17
464.2250 LCN 231 RAN 17

Jackson Summit:

460.7875 LCN 464 RAN 5
461.9375 LCN 556 RAN 5 (CC)
463.4125 LCN 674 RAN 5
464.4125 LCN 754 RAN 5

There is one licensed frequency at Sayre that appears to be inactive, and 4 at Jackson Summit with no activity.

The traffic on both sites appears to be running in parallel.

My initial monitoring with DSDPlus showed many active talk groups and radio assignments. Once I had the LCN's and Talk group numbers, I set up the two sites in the scanner, and have heard a great deal of voice traffic on the following talk groups:

11
131
153
191
242
381
486
841

Virtually all of these talk groups appear to be associated with natural gas drilling operations (fracking), which is a major industry in northern Pennsylvania. Groups 131 and 381 in particular are being used by trucks hauling fresh water to various drilling sites. Fracking requires enormous quantities of water, and drilling operations go on 24-7. Even today (Easter Sunday), the talk groups are extremely busy.

Typical calls to "Base" include site location, time of arrival and departure, gallons of water offloaded, and total mileage.

I see in the FCC records for both counties that there are several other sites licensed to Robert J. and Thomas J. Conway in the two counties, including Monroeton (Kellogg Mountain near Towanda), Troy (Armenia Mountain) Canton, Wellsboro, Antrim and Little Marsh. These would be out of range for reception at my home location in Elmira, with the possible exception of the site in Troy.

Checking these other sites would require taking my SDR and a laptop on a road trip - something I might do in coming weeks if time allows.

Sayre (Site 17) and Jackson Summit (Site 5) are in each other's neighbor lists. I would assume that unknown sites 4, 18, 21, 24 and 25 include some of the above locations.

As it happens, the Conways have a site licensed here in Chemung County, NY WQWE370 (Horseheads), just 6 miles from here. This may be part of the same Nexedge 9600 system, but I have been monitoring the 4 licensed frequencies for several days, and have seen absolutely no activity whatsoever.

Jim Barrett
Hi Jim,

That's great information. Thanks for providing it. If you haven't, please consider submitting it to the actual database using the Submit button on the following page:

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=9209

I do have an additional question for you. On the NXDN sites, when you monitor them with DSDPlus, as the neighbors are shown, beside each neighbor you will see the LCN of the active Control Channel (CC) on that neighboring site. Do you have that information recorded for all of the neighbors on Sites 5 / 17? If so, could you post them as well?

Example:

L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-04; CC=###
L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-17; CC=###
L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-21; CC=###
L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-24; CC=###
L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-25; CC=###

L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-04; CC=###
L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-05; CC=###
L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-18; CC=###
L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-24; CC=###
L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-25; CC=###

where ### is the LCN of the active control channel on each neighbor

That is suprising to hear about nothing being heard from the Horseheads site. That site has been listed on www.ietwoway.com as one of the coverage sites for nearly two years. Maybe it is down, or maybe it hasn't actually ever been online yet. Or maybe they are using some 454 mhz paging frequencies at that site. If you haven't checked the 454 mhz band with DSDPlus, you might want to look around for any signs of L264 on 454 mhz.

Thanks!

Mike
 
Last edited:

JRBarrett

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
9
Location
Elmira, Ny
#67
Hi Mike

Here's the info you requested, hot off of the air:

2019/04/21 19:25:24 L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-4; CC=182
2019/04/21 19:25:24 L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-5; CC=556
2019/04/21 19:25:24 L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-18; CC=787
2019/04/21 19:25:24 L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-24; CC=495
2019/04/21 19:25:24 L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-25; CC=557

2019/04/21 19:30:29 L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-4; CC=182
2019/04/21 19:30:29 L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-17; CC=141
2019/04/21 19:30:29 L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-21; CC=709
2019/04/21 19:30:29 L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-24; CC=495
2019/04/21 19:30:29 L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-25; CC=557

I assume there is a standard formula to convert Nexedge LCNs to actual frequencies? I am quite new to trunking concepts, having only had my SDS200 for about 2 weeks, but I have been trying to educate myself as rapidly as possible here on the RR forums and Wiki.

Jim Barrett
 

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,350
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
#68
Hi Mike

Here's the info you requested, hot off of the air:

I assume there is a standard formula to convert Nexedge LCNs to actual frequencies? I am quite new to trunking concepts, having only had my SDS200 for about 2 weeks, but I have been trying to educate myself as rapidly as possible here on the RR forums and Wiki.

Jim Barrett
Hi Jim,

Yes this system does appear to utilize a standard UHF bandplan, although not all NXDN systems will do this. here is a spreadsheet that might be helpful. The bandplan calculations are elsewhere on the forum. I'll find them and post them for you so that you know how these were determined.

INDUSTRIAL ELECTRONICS SITE LICENSES AND FREQUENCIES

Mike
 

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,350
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
#69
Jim,

Here is the bandplan formula it appears to be using:

Standard UHF Map Formulas
For Channels 1 to 400:
Freq = 450 + (( Ch - 1 ) * 0.0125

For Channels 401 to 800:
Freq = 460 + (( Ch - 401 ) * 0.0125

Mike
 

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,350
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
#70
Hi Mike

Here's the info you requested, hot off of the air:

2019/04/21 19:25:24 L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-4; CC=182
2019/04/21 19:25:24 L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-5; CC=556
2019/04/21 19:25:24 L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-18; CC=787
2019/04/21 19:25:24 L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-24; CC=495
2019/04/21 19:25:24 L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-25; CC=557

2019/04/21 19:30:29 L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-4; CC=182
2019/04/21 19:30:29 L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-17; CC=141
2019/04/21 19:30:29 L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-21; CC=709
2019/04/21 19:30:29 L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-24; CC=495
2019/04/21 19:30:29 L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-25; CC=557

I assume there is a standard formula to convert Nexedge LCNs to actual frequencies? I am quite new to trunking concepts, having only had my SDS200 for about 2 weeks, but I have been trying to educate myself as rapidly as possible here on the RR forums and Wiki.

Jim Barrett
Jim,

Based upon your neighbor lists and FCC data that has been gathered, I would venture to say (but cannot guarantee) that the neighboring sites are:

L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-4; CC=182 # 452.2625 WPNP910 WNKN556 Monroeton / Towanda (Bradford Co)
L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-5; CC=556 # 461.9375 WQLR555 Jackson Summit (Tioga)
L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-18; CC=787 # 464.825 WQPR943 Owega, NY (Tioga)
L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-24; CC=495 # 461.175 WQVR854 Roaring Branch (Lycoming)
L264-17 neighbor: Site L264-25; CC=557 # 461.95 WRCA568 Little Marsh (Tioga)

---------------

L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-4; CC=182 # 452.2625 WPNP910 WNKN556 Monroeton / Towanda (Bradford Co)
L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-17; CC=141 # 451.75 WPQJ229 Sayre (Bradford Co)
L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-21; CC=709 # 463.85 WRCA568 Little Marsh (Tioga) OR WQZZ298 Wellsboro (Tioga)
L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-24; CC=495 # 461.175 WQVR854 Roaring Branch (Lycoming)
L264-5 neighbor: Site L264-25; CC=557 # 461.95 WRCA568 Little Marsh (Tioga)

NOTE: And since 461.95 is on only one license (Little Marsh) and is the CC for Site 25, I'm giong to say that Site 21 is Wellsboro even though 463.85 is on both the Wellsboro and Little Marsh licenses.

Purely speculative until somebody proves it all out by monitoring. But all of that is very useful information that you've gathered. You're awewsome!

Mike
 

JRBarrett

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
9
Location
Elmira, Ny
#71
Thanks Mike. I know the the “radio topography” around this area well, and the sites you have listed as potential “hits” for the neighbors of the Sayre and Jackson Summit sites make perfect sense.

Thanks for the link to the spreadsheet and formula for LCNs. It will give me some practice cross-referencing this info with the various FCC licenses.

I have a feeling that almost all the customers on this system in Bradford and Tioga counties are involved in the gas drilling industry. The traffic on sites 5 and 17 appears to be identical for the most part. I heard one truck reporting to base that he was “leaving Wysox”, which would be out of range of either site 5 or 17. He was probably working through Monroeton, which would have been the closest site to that location.

Meanwhile, I’ll keep monitoring the Horseheads site for any activity. As you may know, New York has instituted a statewide ban on natural gas fracking, but Industral Electronics may have put the site in Horseheads in anticipation of a future change in that policy. (Unlikely to ever happen though).
 

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
7,350
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
#72
Thanks Mike. I know the the “radio topography” around this area well, and the sites you have listed as potential “hits” for the neighbors of the Sayre and Jackson Summit sites make perfect sense.

Thanks for the link to the spreadsheet and formula for LCNs. It will give me some practice cross-referencing this info with the various FCC licenses.

I have a feeling that almost all the customers on this system in Bradford and Tioga counties are involved in the gas drilling industry. The traffic on sites 5 and 17 appears to be identical for the most part. I heard one truck reporting to base that he was “leaving Wysox”, which would be out of range of either site 5 or 17. He was probably working through Monroeton, which would have been the closest site to that location.

Meanwhile, I’ll keep monitoring the Horseheads site for any activity. As you may know, New York has instituted a statewide ban on natural gas fracking, but Industral Electronics may have put the site in Horseheads in anticipation of a future change in that policy. (Unlikely to ever happen though).
You're welcome, Jim. Again, thank you so much for your efforts to provide great data for the DB and users. Yes, I do recall NY's policy on fracking. But you are likely right on the money with why Horseheads was proposed on their coverage map but not seen as active in real life. Glad to hear there is a lot of traffic up your way to listen to though. These types of systems, in my area (in Ohio) are nearly void of activity, since the fracking boom reached its peak in my county a few years back. Everything is now returning back to "dullsville" as far as listening goes.

Take it easy,

Mike
 

JRBarrett

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
9
Location
Elmira, Ny
#73
It appears that my scanner may have mapped the LCNs incorrectly for the Sayre site 17

After running the LCN finder on this site, and reading the results back into Sentinel, I had the results in my initial post:

Sayre:

451.4250 LCN 739 RAN 17
451.7500 LCN 141 RAN 17 (CC)
461.1000 LCN 489 RAN 17
464.2250 LCN 231 RAN 17

However, after applying the standard formula you posted, it appears that the LCNs should actually be:

Sayre:

451.4250 LCN 115 (new)
451.7500 LCN 141 (no change)
452.8750 LCN 231 (was assigned to 464.225, but should be associated with this frequency, (which is indeed on the site license).
461.1000 LCN 489 (no change)
464.2250 LCN 739 (was assigned to 451.4250)

The radio-calculated LCNs for the Jackson Summit site were all correct per the formula.

I had noticed that I was often hearing only one side of the conversation when the scanner was connected to Sayre, but usually was hearing both sides on Jackson Summit. This may explain it.
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
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Oct 4, 2007
Messages
6,834
Location
BEE00
#75
I should note that it will not show the frequencies unless you already have them mapped in the DSDPlus.frequencies file, but it will certain show the LCN's of the active channels at the site. I believe that's really all you need to confirm that the LCN Finder got them wrong, and that they match up to the standard band plan for this system.
 

JRBarrett

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Oct 11, 2005
Messages
9
Location
Elmira, Ny
#76
Run DSD+ on the site, it will show the LCN's with no LCN Finder or calculation table required.
Still learning the ins and outs of DSD+ Now that I look back at the DSD logs from my previous monitoring of the two sites, I see the LCNs were indeed there.

Fortunately, as Mike pointed out, this network appears to be using a standard band plan, so relating LCN to frequency is straightforward.
 

GTR8000

Well Known Member
Database Admin
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Oct 4, 2007
Messages
6,834
Location
BEE00
#77
I've made the changes, no submission necessary for this particular quick fix. The word required is a bit rigid, so we'll just say that submissions to the database are always preferred, vs only posting findings in the forum. I normally make it a point not to add data based on forum posts, as I don't like to encourage the practice!

Thanks!
 

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
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Messages
7,350
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
#78
It appears that my scanner may have mapped the LCNs incorrectly for the Sayre site 17

After running the LCN finder on this site, and reading the results back into Sentinel, I had the results in my initial post:

<snip>

I had noticed that I was often hearing only one side of the conversation when the scanner was connected to Sayre, but usually was hearing both sides on Jackson Summit. This may explain it.
That's interesting. I've used the LCN finder before and when it would populate the LCNs and they looked even remotely legitimate, I never questioned them further. It's nice to know that the scanner _may_ collect the right LCNs but jumble them (assign them to the wrong frequency). I'll have to watch out for that in the future to make sure it doesn't happen to me. Thanks for the tip, Jim.

Mike
 
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
3
Location
Northern Pa.
#79
Thanks mtindor and JRBarret

I have been monitoring these sites for about a decade. I can give you some info about the Towanda Tower (as the truckers refer to it). II Don't know much about DSD+, I only have my three scanners. One is a recently purchased TRX-2 that I Purchased just to monitor Towanda. I am located between Sayre and Jackson Summit, but Towanda is by far the most active. All three still use LTR but the ID's for them are down to a handful. My EZ Scan shows that have generated over 100 ID's for NXDN, most of them from Towanda. Some of them are quite likely phantoms created by weak signals.

Some have submitted logs in zip format but I don't know how to use zip. So here is a snippet of todays log:

462.03750 Towanda 2 816 (possibly a rental company)
461.65000 Towanda 1 816
463.50000 Towanda 1 11 (energy company based in Deer Park)
463.91250 Towanda 1 195
Being that this is a TRX-2 these are most likely voice channels. Also note Towanda 1&2 are my label for the two licenses for that tower. They both display as RAN 4.

452.26250 Which is WPNP910 is one that none of my scanners will decode. What I have been hearing have been sand cans, water trucks, school buses, rental companies, pipe liners/landscapers, security, and a host of others. I may submit the LTR info later on.
 
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