Interesting article on Fire Encryption

Mr_Boh

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As I read it, it sounds like they are mainly looking to add the capability to listen to their local law enforcement, who is encrypted, This sounds like an essential capability. As a fire chief myself, I have always said that if our jurisdiction's law enforcement were to encrypt their day-to-day patrol talkgroup we would need our radios to have encryption added as well. For situational awareness, both our fire and PD members monitor each other on a daily basis. Remember that just because the subscriber equipment has encryption, doesn't mean it's active on every channel or talkgroup. This fire company's request seems completely legitimate.
I read this the same way. I don't know enough about the Delaware operations to know who is responsible for buying the equipment, but it still seems like there is a lot of feet dragging to upgrade. I know there is a lot more going on the background to go P25, but last year it was getting the TDMA-capable subscribers to communicate with Maryland.

If the individual companies have to procure the subscribers themselves, it makes a ton of sense that they would want to be able to support Phase II (TDMA) and encryption, and justify it to the local press properly, which they have.

Also, DE's statewide push for encryption was "strongly motivated" by the Secret Service's need to have all surrounding emergency service agencies' transmissions to be encrypted.
I never thought about it, but that makes a ton of sense. Is there a source you can point to on this?
 

saber2k5

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For those that see this as a reasonable request:

I would highly that you read that article a second time. The council person wants to keep the fire department activity private, in an effort to prevent onlookers at fire scenes by ENC fire talk groups.

What happens when there is a request for mutual aid or cover up within that jurisdiction? Will out-of -town companies also have the ENC key? I find it quite unlikely the PD would release that key to neighboring fire departments.

This is a "not well thought out" plan, even if the Secret Service has pushed for it.
 

Roach112683

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For those that see this as a reasonable request:

I would highly that you read that article a second time. The council person wants to keep the fire department activity private, in an effort to prevent onlookers at fire scenes by ENC fire talk groups.

What happens when there is a request for mutual aid or cover up within that jurisdiction? Will out-of -town companies also have the ENC key? I find it quite unlikely the PD would release that key to neighboring fire departments.

This is a "not well thought out" plan, even if the Secret Service has pushed for it.
The Secret Service has nothing to do with Fire Services. I could see DSP and Rehoboth Beach but not Fire.
 

Citywide173

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The Secret Service has nothing to do with Fire Services. I could see DSP and Rehoboth Beach but not Fire.
The Secret Service has everything to do with every aspect of public safety in a state the size of a postage stamp that contains the President's home residence.
 

maus92

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The Secret Service has everything to do with every aspect of public safety in a state the size of a postage stamp that contains the President's home residence.
The Secret Service had nothing to do with pushing the state to start using encryption. The DOJ in general recommends encryption for law enforcement entities, and somewhat recent developments in technology makes it more logistically manageable in large deployments. The question is the role of local governments weighing the tactical benefits of secrecy vs. the destruction of open governance and hiding of malfeasance.
 

jwhite591

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This whole argument has nothing to do with the Secret Service, Carlisle fire company which is in southern Kent County, has nothing to due with Biden residences in any way, His main house is within Cranston Heights Fire District, and his beach home is within Rehobeth Beach Fire District. this whole argument is nothing more than a few Fire Police who think they are a Full Police Department (which they are not) all they want is to have access and to monitor police Business, if the police want to talk to the Fire Police or Fire Apparatus that is on location is turn off the Encryption in their radio, After all you don't hear this argument up in New Castle County where they are handling Presidential Motorcades to and from Wilmington Airport and to his home in Greenville, Using Del-Dot, State Police, And other Agencies all on State Inter Ops 1 With No Encryption. The Secret Service Uses their Encrypted Radios within the protected Bubble of the President. and use the State system for inter Op Communications only, hey they even have their own Ambulance on site.
https://milfordlive.com/weekly-review/
 

maus92

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In some more rural Maryland counties, fire police members can act as a deputy sheriff while enroute to and on the scene of an emergency, and at some special events. Generally speaking, if the county has a police department, fire police are not authorized. Not sure what enforcement powers are delegated to fire police in Delaware, but I can't imagine it would require access to encrypted tgs.
 

trailhiker73

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With regard to the fire department asking for encryption, I never did recall hearing Milford PD or the Carlisle FD communicating with each other on either police or fire TGID's prior to Milford PD going to encryption. In the end, I'm curious as to what the $10K will pay for with their encryption request.
 

de784

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With regard to the fire department asking for encryption, I never did recall hearing Milford PD or the Carlisle FD communicating with each other on either police or fire TGID's prior to Milford PD going to encryption. In the end, I'm curious as to what the $10K will pay for with their encryption request.
In all my years monitoring police and fire I have never heard them talk to each other. Unless it was on a statewide channel looking for a missing person
 

Citywide173

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The Secret Service had nothing to do with pushing the state to start using encryption. The DOJ in general recommends encryption for law enforcement entities, and somewhat recent developments in technology makes it more logistically manageable in large deployments. The question is the role of local governments weighing the tactical benefits of secrecy vs. the destruction of open governance and hiding of malfeasance.
If you've ever dealt with the Secret Service on a Presidential detail, you would know exactly what I'm talking about.
 

maus92

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USPP has been on the Presidential detail for years, and only recently encrypted their comms - and the USSS had nothing to do with the migration. It was a obsolescence issue that drove the change (and it was still half-assed.)
 

Citywide173

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USPP has been on the Presidential detail for years, and only recently encrypted their comms - and the USSS had nothing to do with the migration. It was a obsolescence issue that drove the change (and it was still half-assed.)
Funny, they've been insisting on encryption with us and using encyption since before I got on the job in 96
 

TerryPavlick

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Funny, they've been insisting on encryption with us and using encyption since before I got on the job in 96
seems they need to adjust the wording to onListener instead of onlooker. Did not know encrypted comms affect the onlookers eyes when it is used. You get a ton more onlookers than listeners to any public safety emergency scene!! Perhaps they need to encrypt the visual appearance of the scene so people can not take pictures and videos with their cellphones.
 

maus92

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Funny, they've been insisting on encryption with us and using encyption since before I got on the job in 96
Funny, the jurisdictions surrounding WDC have their routine comms in the clear even though the President makes frequent visits to these same metro areas. Even MPDC didn't use Presidential security as an excuse when they went fully enc (they used the criminals can listen in - unproven, "officer safety" - also unproven, along with a legitimate national security argument. The real reason was some embarrassing officer conversations that were overheard.) I guess the USSS doesn't have the pull to successfully influence any major change around here. However these big systems do have plenty of encrypted channels, as will the state of Maryland in the region when their overlay network goes live. This gets to the gist of the argument - why is it necessary to encrypt routine / all comms for Presidential security - or any other superfluous reason? The answer is you don't. A shared tactical tg set is all that is needed.
 
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Roach112683

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If you've ever dealt with the Secret Service on a Presidential detail, you would know exactly what I'm talking about.
I worked at a Hospital in Wilmington, DE as a Security Supervisor. The Hospital was the Hospital Biden Selected for when he was home in Wilmington should he ever need to go. This was when he was VP. He was there once. I did the Detail. All we had was out unencrypted DMR radios (at the time I don't think DMR was as accessible as it is today). We gave one to the USSS and we retained ours.

We were always near the agents so it was really just redundancy. So I do know how they work.
 
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