• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

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    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

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Interesting article on Motorola

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jim202

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12dbsinad

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I've been saying this for a long time! The TAXPAYERS are getting ripped off by Mother M. I know it, you know it, Motorola Solutions knows it, and I'm glad it's being brought to light.
 

PACNWDude

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This has been known by many for a long time, yet others are also basing their business off of this example. Other radio companies do this as too.

Glad someone is getting this out in a report though. 9-1-1 call centers are often a source for gouging taxpayers for overpriced product. One vendor I know of charges about $3600 for a Dell desktop computer and another $3000 for a glorified proprietary soundcard interface box. Speakers are almost $1000, and built with parts that could be bought from Digikey and assembled for less than $100. This is only the tip of the iceberg on waste in first response and dispatch systems.

Then there are the dispatch consoles and telephony systems.
 

mmckenna

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I've been working with Daryl and using his company for a long time. He's usually right on and he's been saying this for years. We've moved away from Motorola over the years, partly because of bad customer service and partly because of high prices.
The Citron article lays it out pretty plainly. What keeps Motorola going is the old timers that think nothing else will ever be good enough, and the Motorola sales tactics. As the "old timers" retire, the demand for sole source is fading away. Agencies are discovering what this article says, you can get comparable equipment at pennies on the dollar. The word is out on the Motorola sales tactics, and eyes are closely watching the contracts. The days of proprietary features are gone.

What's interesting is every year at IWCE the Motorola booth gets smaller and smaller. Sure, it's still flashy, and lots of people are there, but the other big radio vendors have a bigger presence.
 

SCPD

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Agreed and seen this ages ago. Eventually many Will say enough is enough. That or debts will cut the cord from them landing the contracts. Like said the old mindsets of seeing Motorola as cream of crop will eventually be out the door as those persons retire and as more commissions who vote or pass local spending bills will say whoa wait a minute when addressed on the over pricing.
 

sfd119

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In the days of Government accountability and smaller budgets, people are looking towards other vendors. I have been steering agencies towards EFWood. They really have some solid stuff coming out the door and its 1/4 of the price of the Motorola equivalent.
 

troymail

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Is is possible that the government got it right pushing P25 to create open competition years ago?

From what I've seen, however, the competition - be it in P25 or something else (NXDN, etc.) - has to do more to build confidence beyond their products (radios that people "touch") but also the engineering, design/planning, and installation/operation of their systems. It seems like there are companies out there who are claiming they can install systems for almost nothing only to win contracts and then fail to deliver on solid installations. This situation, when allowed to happen, only serves to strengthen Motorola's position.

As a tax payer, I don't think we should be forced to line the pockets of any vendor of any product - be it radios, drugs, airplanes, etc. - through outrageous (over) pricing. On the other hand, until the competition builds confidence in what they sell and install, public safety will continue to look at Motorola as the only solution they can rely upon.

This will certainly change but not overnight.
 
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The Citron article lays it out pretty plainly. What keeps Motorola going is the old timers that think nothing else will ever be good enough, and the Motorola sales tactics. As the "old timers" retire, the demand for sole source is fading away. Agencies are discovering what this article says, you can get comparable equipment at pennies on the dollar. The word is out on the Motorola sales tactics, and eyes are closely watching the contracts. The days of proprietary features are gone.

What's interesting is every year at IWCE the Motorola booth gets smaller and smaller. Sure, it's still flashy, and lots of people are there, but the other big radio vendors have a bigger presence.
Everyone knows Motorola's prices are high…it's nothing new. Literally buying the name from a company that has nearly 100 years of R&D rolled up into it's products. The big problem with why a lot of "old timers" are stuck on Motorola is because over the years they've tired different brands of radio and nothing has compared in terms of performance (a lot of what they got their hands on were first revision products that hadn't yet matured). Case-in-point, I believe we were talking in another thread about some issues a county was having with their Kenwood radios on the GATRRS system (VHF side). Performance issues that were literarily night and day differences when they began purchasing lower tier APX products (and are kicking themselves for not purchasing XTL and XTS products initially due to the additional inflated pricing of the APX radios). First generation Kenwood saved them $1500 per radio initially but they only were utilized for half of the service life before being replaced…overall costing them $2500 more over time. Unfortunately, their experience with Kenwood has now closed the doors for anyone trusting anything other than Motorola on the system (since now EF Johnson and Kenwood have failed) even the vastly improved designs that resulted from the second and third generation products.

Unfortunately Harris's partnership with Tait drove another nail in the coffin for agencies who will have nothing to do with Harris for whatever reason. Tait has a very competitively priced alternative that I would classify in the mid-tier range but is a quality product. Though it did open up opportunities for shops to sell on Harris systems.

Motorola's booth at IWCE gets smaller and smaller every year because their Channel Partner Expo (held across the strip on the days leading up to IWCE's expo) keeps becoming larger and larger. The company I work for full time, has Motorola tunnel vision. No on goes to IWCE to represent them so they have no clue what other products are out…but the top 10% all attend the CPE. I offered to represent them at IWCE this year (I have some ETA business to attend to and I've found IWCE is easiest since the powers at be pop in at some point or another) and was really just told…they don't care about IWCE (as a result I'll end up representing my wife's company and not my employer).
 
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