• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

Interesting story

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kd7gxu

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http://www.torringtontelegram.com/main.php?story_id=5818&page=23

From the Torrington Telegram:

Firefighters cited after responding to structure fire
BY BESS CARNAHAN
On July 12, a dry lightning storm sparked several fires in north Goshen County.
Several agencies were called to respond to the various fires. Lingle was paged to respond to a fire with structures in danger.
Lingle firefighters, Jack Cannon and Dave O’Shel were clocked in a 20 mile per hour zone, traveling 30 and 31 miles per hour by Lingle police officer Kenny Elwood. Elwood clocked the radar and did not interfere with the firefighter’s response, but waited until the firefighters returned to the fire hall and issued each one a citation. Fines for that speed were $100 and $103.
The incident sparked an emotional outburst from emergency response personnel on both sides of the issue and has become a countywide issue. In the recent past, there have been situations where firefighters have received citations for traveling in an emergent fashion after the emergency had been cancelled. There was also an incident where an emergency responder was involved in a high-speed chase of a patient who refused treatment. These incidents have left police officials in a quandary on how to protect citizens from potential hazards due to inappropriate and/or unnecessary speeding by emergency responders.
Lingle firefighters were united as a group to defend O’Shel and Cannon. Lingle fire chief Joe Wells said he was prepared to go the distance to back up his firefighters.
The situation came to a head at the Lingle town council meeting on July 19. Several Lingle firefighters attended the meeting to support O’Shel and Cannon. However, the Lingle council would not hear comments or discuss the matter in the open meeting. Instead, the meeting was adjourned to executive session and all non-essential persons were asked to leave the town hall.
During the executive session, Lingle firefighters commented on the incident outside on the sidewalk. The consensus was that based on distances and time, everyone in all departments tries to respond in a responsible manner as quickly as possible. Getting a jump on the emergency, whether fire or medical, as quickly as possible makes the difference between life and death and fire containment. The firefighters felt that Elwood had deliberately set up a radar trap at the fire hall for the purpose of issuing the citations.
The firefighters united behind O’Shel and Cannon and offered to pay for them to fight the citations and said they would cover any lost salaries for the two.
At the end of the executive session, the meeting continued with no further mention of the incident. After the meeting, Elwood invited the Lingle firefighters into his office for a private meeting.
There had been comments that Goshen County Sheriff Don Murphy had been advising Elwood to trap speeding firefighters prior to July 12.
Murphy said he had no knowledge of the incident until after the fact. Murphy went on to say he felt the incident might be used to clear the air of the confusing variety of unwritten understandings concerning emergency response by firefighters and EMTs. He said law enforcement is required to follow Wyoming statutes when enforcing laws.
“The statutes provide regulations for emergency response and each municipality or county commissioners may give emergency response agencies permission for emergent response by emergency personnel in their private vehicles,” Murphy said.
As County Sheriff, Murphy said he could not make any of the agreements.
“It must come from the governing bodies,” he said.
All parties who were involved in the executive session have declined comment on what was said during the session.
Elwood admitted to issuing the two citations.
“Both citations have since been dismissed by me due to other circumstances that were discussed in the executive session,” Elwood said. “I believe the fire and emergency responders do an excellent job. They volunteer without compensation for training and emergency response. I am proud of the services they provide and the job they do and hope we can continue to work together in the future.”
County Attorney Patrick Korell said he has been contacted about the incident.
“I have offered to visit with city attorneys, police chiefs, fire chiefs and governing bodies to set up a policy for Goshen County and municipalities that will work for everyone,” Korell said. “Balances are needed for law enforcement to protect the communities and for emergency personnel to safely serve the communities.”
 

SCPD

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Letter and spirit of the law?? Maybe some day the cop or his boss will need a response from them and they can travel 10 mph below the speed limit to their house (just to be extra safe, of course).
 

red8

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denham springs la.
I just can't believe this man, if there was a candidate for waterhead
of the year this guy would get for and the term waterhead is being use
lightly. I was cop for 23 year and to hear of the officers lack of
common sense is totally assinine. I think the day they tried to teach
this waterhead about traffic enforcement at the accademy he wasn' t
his brain was out to lunch or his two brain cells were busy in his head
one waving goodbye to the other one
red8
 

fairrpe86

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I find that completly unreasonable and stupid. Firefighters and police officers may not get along some times for what ever reason but at the same time they are both out there to do the same job........help the people of their communities. I have heard of a similiar story down here in Colorado. State Patrol attempted to pull a fire rig over while running emergent to a call. I do not know all of the details but this was an official rig from the department that they were pulling over. It is things like that, that cause issues between agencies that need not have issues. I guess everybody just has their own bones to pick.
 

Bluemax10

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Tagging Firefighters

So much for professional courtesy. I am a police officer in Ontario and I would never ticket a firefighter enroute to an emergency. I may speak to them after about the incident but that would be as far as it goes. We are a team and count on each other. Im sure this sheriff set back inter-departmental relations 20 years.
 

fastattackus

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Don't forget about the danger of volunteer response. I work for a full time and a part time department. Don't forget about the fact that these 2 firefighters were probably responding in unmarked vehicles with no warning lights or sirens. While it's very important to get a quick response to fires (they double in size every minute) and medical calls where seconds count, how would you feel if your wife, child or husband had a horrible accident in an intersection with an unmarked vehicle responding to the fire station to go to an emergency. Cities need to pay for staffing for fire departments just like they do for police. Would you say it's acceptable to have a police officer respond from home and go pick up his cruiser every time there is a call for service? If the city absoulutely can't move into the year 2006 and at least have minimum staffing, then at least provide some lights and sirens for responders to use while driving to the station to get the fire apparatus. Many cities back east have done this for years. My parttime department outlawed all emergency driving to the fire station by off duty personnel because of an accident years ago. It's all about what you as a community are willing to allow for your protection. Pay now or pay later!!
 

OpSec

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fastattackus said:
Don't forget about the danger of volunteer response. I work for a full time and a part time department. Don't forget about the fact that these 2 firefighters were probably responding in unmarked vehicles with no warning lights or sirens. While it's very important to get a quick response to fires (they double in size every minute) and medical calls where seconds count, how would you feel if your wife, child or husband had a horrible accident in an intersection with an unmarked vehicle responding to the fire station to go to an emergency. Cities need to pay for staffing for fire departments just like they do for police. Would you say it's acceptable to have a police officer respond from home and go pick up his cruiser every time there is a call for service? If the city absoulutely can't move into the year 2006 and at least have minimum staffing, then at least provide some lights and sirens for responders to use while driving to the station to get the fire apparatus. Many cities back east have done this for years. My parttime department outlawed all emergency driving to the fire station by off duty personnel because of an accident years ago. It's all about what you as a community are willing to allow for your protection. Pay now or pay later!!
While I agree that due regard is required by volunteer responders, with or without lights/siren, it appears in this case the deputy took this a step overboard. I'm not a lawyer or judge, but to me going 10 mph over the speed limit is not excessive nor did it warrant a citation.

If this two men where running hot with lights/siren, and driving with due regard, then the deputy is out of line.
 

Robbyboy

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Hearing this is disturbing. Here in NC, the county that I volunteer in is a bit weird with regards to law enforcement, however I have never had an interaction with law enforcement while responding to calls. I have actually had (only once or twice) the LEO clear traffic for me since in NC volunteer responders are not authorized to run sirens (Only Chief officers). If I recall correctly, the general statute indicates reasonable and prudent speeds. What makes this story more disturbing is the lack of details (What were the traffic conditions, etc?) Were they in the middle of nowhere or in a fairly populated area? My station is actually located in a 20 MPH zone which makes that final 30 seconds very interesting. It is a 20 MPH zone due to the fact that it is a town area. Fortonately, the locals which sometimes have nothing better to do have never harassed us. When someone was actually driving reckless (Rarity) they give a courtesy notification to the chief officers and they handle it internally. The Chiefs handle it professionally and responsibly and it generally happens again. As was stated in a previous post, Interdepartmental relations have probabally been set back 20 years.

Imagine if responders hearing this follow the speed limit when their tones drop...

Regards
 

kd7gxu

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Lingle details

Robbyboy said:
Hearing this is disturbing. Here in NC, the county that I volunteer in is a bit weird with regards to law enforcement, however I have never had an interaction with law enforcement while responding to calls. I have actually had (only once or twice) the LEO clear traffic for me since in NC volunteer responders are not authorized to run sirens (Only Chief officers). If I recall correctly, the general statute indicates reasonable and prudent speeds. What makes this story more disturbing is the lack of details (What were the traffic conditions, etc?) Were they in the middle of nowhere or in a fairly populated area? My station is actually located in a 20 MPH zone which makes that final 30 seconds very interesting. It is a 20 MPH zone due to the fact that it is a town area. Fortonately, the locals which sometimes have nothing better to do have never harassed us. When someone was actually driving reckless (Rarity) they give a courtesy notification to the chief officers and they handle it internally. The Chiefs handle it professionally and responsibly and it generally happens again. As was stated in a previous post, Interdepartmental relations have probabally been set back 20 years.

Imagine if responders hearing this follow the speed limit when their tones drop...

Regards

The town of Lingle has about 450 people and is 10 miles from the next nearest town. Where the tickets were written, it is a 30 mph zone. The Road that the tickets were written on is US hwy 26/85 which run through main street as one four lane highway. There is almost no traffic in town and most travelers go 30-40 mph through there anyway. The town cop goes spends his whole shift writing tickets on that road, that is how they pay his salary. It must have been a slow day writing tickets to out of state-ers who didn't know to slow down BELOW 30. He will pull you over for 1-2 mph over if you are the only car. I drove through there on the way to work for almost 10 years and made sure that I was going UNDER 30 especially since it was usually about 0600 when I went through and the road was empty.
 
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N_Jay

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Seems this FD has earned some disrespect.

"In the recent past, there have been situations where firefighters have received citations for traveling in an emergent fashion after the emergency had been cancelled. There was also an incident where an emergency responder was involved in a high-speed chase of a patient who refused treatment. These incidents have left police officials in a quandary on how to protect citizens from potential hazards due to inappropriate and/or unnecessary speeding by emergency responders."
 

OpSec

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N_Jay said:
Seems this FD has earned some disrespect.

"In the recent past, there have been situations where firefighters have received citations for traveling in an emergent fashion after the emergency had been cancelled. There was also an incident where an emergency responder was involved in a high-speed chase of a patient who refused treatment. These incidents have left police officials in a quandary on how to protect citizens from potential hazards due to inappropriate and/or unnecessary speeding by emergency responders."

Yes, at some time in the past there were members that screwed themselves and got tickets. However, in this case they were enroute to the department for a call...the tickets were unfounded and out of line.
 
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car2back

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So were they in POVs or A Fire dept vehicle?

My volunteer FD has a strict no tolerance rule about "running hot" to the station for calls in our personal vehicles. Our firehouse is on a major state highway and the temptation to haul @$$ is there but it's just not safe.
 
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