Introduction, and APX8000 questions

[SWOLH]

Thanks to the people here, I have learned so much lurking. I'm a recent hire into the radio world, after working in Aerospace comms for many years.

Currently supporting Turbo and NXDN networks at major industrial sites. I haven't been doing much in Public Safety, but a contact with the local Fire Dept asked me about the shiny new APX8000 his guys want. They do not have a P25 network. Current setup is a 5 site Kairos multicast DMR system. Works very well, from the little I know about it.
I see the APX8000 radio talks about "all bands", but I don't see explicit DMR support mentioned.
Will it support DMR?

I can't imagine the price difference between their current 7550s and these 8000s.
Of all things the fire fighters want: The "offset" knobs, for better control when wearing gloves.
Thanks again for all the help.

 

[Ant9270]

No, there is no firmware in the works that supports DMR on the APX series. This is an easy way for MSI to continue to profit off of the TRBO series for industrial industries/ small departments, and continue to make mass amounts of cash off of statewide systems/departments on the APX line.

 

[phillydjdan]

My first question is who was the beaurocrat that got duped into buying a non-mission critical system for mission critical communication in the first place...

 

[SWOLH]

Thanks for the help. I see several of the regional FDs do not have P25.
No budget for it, from what I am told, and there is no broad cooperation between city/county agencies.

 

[alcahuete]

My first question is who was the beaurocrat that got duped into buying a non-mission critical system for mission critical communication in the first place...

Probably the same beaurocrat from whatever small town where money doesn't grow on trees, and they can't afford Motorola's outrageous prices.

 

[Ant9270]

Probably the same beaurocrat from whatever small town where money doesn't grow on trees, and they can't afford Motorola's outrageous prices.

You hit the nail on the head. Not every department has funding or can obtain grants to get P25 Sub units and a simulcast voted system, lol. And honestly, that's why I see more and more departments switching to Kenwood for their sub units. I cant tell you how many times i've heard sleazy salesmen tell chiefs that P25 or DMR equates encryption automatically. How many clueless LEOs i've heard (no fault of their own) saying "How can you hear us, we're encrypted" Uhhhh, Yeah..... About that.

 

[phillydjdan]

Can't afford P25 but can afford DMR, when analog works perfectly well... Oh and then when you want to upgrade your pretty little DMR radios you still need to buy Mother M's "licenses" that essentially only "unlocks" features the radio already has in it lol

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I have compared DMR with P25 technology benefts vs cost under a number of scenarios. Unless you have a specific P25 interoperability requirement or need for AES256 and key management, the DMR far outweighs P25. The grant programs that require P25 don't offer enough financial incentive to make up for the ENORMOUS cost differential of P25. DMR is pretty good stuff, don't dismiss it for mission critical.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

Can't afford P25 but can afford DMR, when analog works perfectly well... Oh and then when you want to upgrade your pretty little DMR radios you still need to buy Mother M's "licenses" that essentially only "unlocks" features the radio already has in it lol

There are other DMR vendors. Unfortunately the best of them Hytera, has been effectively squashed like a bug by /\/\. Hytera should have been squeaky clean when flying so close to the sun.

/\/\ has pricey mandatory "make it work" option licenses on all the P25 stuff. They would rather you rent in perpetuity (or until its obsolete) than have you own the stuff independently and not need to feed the monster.

I agree analog is sufficient in some cases, but the narrowbanding has crippled the signal budget. The only way to get it back is either DMR, P25 or NXDN.

 

[mmckenna]

…..shiny new APX8000 his guys want.

Would be interesting to know why they think they need APX8000's. "Because everyone else has them" is not a good answer, but that's often what you'll hear. They see other agencies with a specific radio, or worse, see them on TV, and assume that they 'deserve' the same radios. Often these guys are clueless when it comes to the technology and just want the brand name.

Kind of silly to have a DMR system, but then want high buck APX radios.

I see the APX8000 radio talks about "all bands", but I don't see explicit DMR support mentioned.
Will it support DMR?

Yeah, it doesn't as stated above.

Lots of other radios that will support DMR that would be just fine in the fire service.
Usually letting the fire fighters pick radios based on looks or brand name is a real bad idea.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

They want "the offset knobs" !!!!


Inspired by MUGATU

 

[mmckenna]

They want "the offset knobs" !!!!

EF Johnson has "offset knobs". And they don't need an APX-8000 just to get their knobs in the direction they want.

Or: "Hey, I've got your offset knob right here!" done in my best New Yawk accent.

 

[slobonmycob]

I cant tell you how many times i've heard sleazy salesmen tell chiefs that P25 or DMR equates encryption automatically. How many clueless LEOs i've heard (no fault of their own) saying "How can you hear us, we're encrypted" Uhhhh, Yeah..... About that.

My agency has been told the EXACT same thing. Just because it takes a certain type of radio/scanner does NOT mean that it’s encrypted. Funny to see it’s a common misconception.