KC9AAQ
Member
I am considering obtaining a Gmrs license, and have an opportunity to get a couple of encryptede radios. Can they legally be used for GMRS?
73
trehouse
73
trehouse
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Is encryption legal on GMRS?
- Thread starter KC9AAQ
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W2NJS
Member
Forget about it. Read this thread:
http://forums.radioreference.com/gmrs-frs/130654-gmrs-apco-25-a.html
http://forums.radioreference.com/gmrs-frs/130654-gmrs-apco-25-a.html
b7spectra
EMS Dispatcher
By the law, the answer is no.
n5ims
Member
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2004
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- 3,993
We all could give our opinions on the legality of encryption on GMRS, but none of the opinions would hold any legal weight should someone be sent a violation notice by the FCC. How about we simply go to the source and see what the FCC has to say on the matter. (below are from --> http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2009-title47-vol5/pdf/CFR-2009-title47-vol5-part95.pdf)
(My opinion starts now) Since and encrypted communication by nature is designed to prevent an easy and clear understanding by others it would therefore violate the "plain language" section. It would also be coded and a message with hidden meanings which would fall under the section of prohibited communications. Encrypted communications would therefore not only not be permitted, but also specifically prohibited.
To help reinforce my thoughts, Midland was fined $21,000 for making and selling GMRS radios that included a voice scrambling feature (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-1390A1.pdf)
(My opinion starts now) Since and encrypted communication by nature is designed to prevent an easy and clear understanding by others it would therefore violate the "plain language" section. It would also be coded and a message with hidden meanings which would fall under the section of prohibited communications. Encrypted communications would therefore not only not be permitted, but also specifically prohibited.
To help reinforce my thoughts, Midland was fined $21,000 for making and selling GMRS radios that included a voice scrambling feature (http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-09-1390A1.pdf)
At one point, encryption was permitted if the encryption method was published, not secret. One method of doing that was to have the encryption method published by the Congressional Library making it a public record. I have no idea if that's still a viable method or not, things have changed since then. In very simple, or 'layman's' terms, it's a no-no. In 'legalistic' terms... Eeeuww, nasty thought, huh?
- 'Doc
- 'Doc
ecps92
Member
Even tho the FCC did Type Accept that vendors radios, they back-tracked and did fine them. That was a few years ago.
Very true, and interestingly enough it seems that motorola did not catch hell for this when they started and still do market bubblepak gmrs radios which include inversion scrambling as a feature??
Is there a double standard maybe?
73,
n9zas
Seems like it..That is even the same for the Rhino radios they are allowed to tx data on the FRS/GMRS freqs. I guess it all comes down to dollar signs Big M and Rhino must of paid the FCC some big bucks to be allowed to market radios with features that are prohibited on FRS/GMRS
I think it would be interesting to hear the answers from a FCC field office as to why midland caught hell and companies like moto and rhino didn't?? I forgot the rhinos transmit lat/long waypoint data over gmrs,or is it only over the FRS channels?
73,
n9zas
sjscomm
Member
Disregard my question .
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nd5y
Member
The modes allowed on GMRS are listed here:
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:
Electronic Code of Federal Regulations:
n5ims
Member
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Perhaps this has less to do with "dollar signs Big M and Rhino must of paid the FCC" and more to do with Garmin working with the FCC and filing the proper paperwork to receive a rule waiver to specifically allow the addition of the GPS data transmissions. http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-08-2806A1.pdf
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=6404&ra=true "Important Note: We are pleased to announce that the FCC has granted Garmin a waiver that allows the Rino products to send position data on GMRS channels."
East_Algoma
Member
Your Own FRQ
Apply to the FCC for your own FRQ and use what ever ya want on your own FRQ - thats what I did...cost me 48.50 for the yr...Uniden had 2 models out that used simple voice inversion , I bought 2 sets of these...they work very well...my buddy had a hard time trying to nab the center frequency...tho its impossible what so ever...but UNIDEN made a nice Voice Inversion model..( now taken off the shelf by the FCC ) Maybe Cobra might have made one too.,...I know there was 2 or 3 radio firms that had voice inversion...So end result...get your own freq and use all the costly crypto out there..
Apply to the FCC for your own FRQ and use what ever ya want on your own FRQ - thats what I did...cost me 48.50 for the yr...Uniden had 2 models out that used simple voice inversion , I bought 2 sets of these...they work very well...my buddy had a hard time trying to nab the center frequency...tho its impossible what so ever...but UNIDEN made a nice Voice Inversion model..( now taken off the shelf by the FCC ) Maybe Cobra might have made one too.,...I know there was 2 or 3 radio firms that had voice inversion...So end result...get your own freq and use all the costly crypto out there..
prcguy
Member
Here in the US that is not possible and business/industrial frequencies are shared. Depending on the band you may require the services of a licensed frequency coordinator and for a 5yr license with coordination you can spend $600 to $800. There are no 1yr licenses from the FCC.
prcguy
prcguy
Apply to the FCC for your own FRQ and use what ever ya want on your own FRQ - thats what I did...cost me 48.50 for the yr...Uniden had 2 models out that used simple voice inversion , I bought 2 sets of these...they work very well...my buddy had a hard time trying to nab the center frequency...tho its impossible what so ever...but UNIDEN made a nice Voice Inversion model..( now taken off the shelf by the FCC ) Maybe Cobra might have made one too.,...I know there was 2 or 3 radio firms that had voice inversion...So end result...get your own freq and use all the costly crypto out there..
East_Algoma
Member
wow that FCC , make the usa look not so free at times
W2NJS
Member
Yes, the FCC can be something else, that's for sure, but at least down here in the states we don't have to wait six months for hernia surgery like you guys up there do.
That's not quite true.. I have never had anything but a positive experience with the Healthcare system up here.. and before you call me ignorant I have lived in both Canada and the United States and would take the Canadian system any day over the US system. In Canada you get sick with something that needs immediate attention they will push you to the front of the line, if its not life threatening etc you might wait a bit.. Big deal! At least when you get sick in Canada it does not matter how much money you have or if your insurance is good enough or honest enough to cover you.
As for America and all her rules.. while its the right of the people to elect the government they wish.. so who am I to criticize... you guys may have to pay for GMRS but you also get more privileges like 50 watts etc.. we get it free but have to stay at 2watts.. its really 6 of one and half a dozen of the other..
Now.. all that being said.. your economy is a mess and your government has as of late done some silly things like forcing everyone to have a passport to cross the border.. not only are you locking your own people in the US unless they buy a passport but your screwing over the border cities like Buffalo and Detroit who have made a good living and some might say survival on the masses from Toronto who drive over and spend money... not a smart thing to do when your economy is in the tanks.. all in the name of "Homeland Security".
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Guys, lets drop the off topic stuff.
Thanks
Thanks
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