Is there a better rubber duck antenna than the one supplied with the SDS200?

[chiefj]

I live in an apartment that is 250 ft above sea level, with unobstructed views to the north, south, and west.

I am planning to purchase the SDS 200 and would like to know if there is a better back-of-set antenna than the rubber duck supplied with the scanner. I'm primarily interested in the RI RISCON and MASS SP 800 systems along with UHF and some VHF high.

My HP I does a fair job, but does a terrible job with the P25 audio and thus the move to the SDS 200. As for an antenna, I have tried a Larson multi-band sitting in the window and the rubber duck. Each seems to have its limitations. I receive the RISCON metro zone okay, but not the north and south zones.

Other than something in the window, I cannot use any other external antennas.

Recommendations, please.

 

[chiefj]

Through some research, I realized that using a mobile antenna inside an apartment requires a ground plane.

How big must it be, and is there a specific metal? I have a Larsen sitting on a windowsill and can possibly fabricate some metal on the windowsill. But how much do I need? Would a strip from under the antenna along the windowsill work?

 

[trentbob]

I live in an apartment that is 250 ft above sea level, with unobstructed views to the north, south, and west.

I am planning to purchase the SDS 200 and would like to know if there is a better back-of-set antenna than the rubber duck supplied with the scanner. I'm primarily interested in the RI RISCON and MASS SP 800 systems along with UHF and some VHF high.

My HP I does a fair job, but does a terrible job with the P25 audio and thus the move to the SDS 200. As for an antenna, I have tried a Larson multi-band sitting in the window and the rubber duck. Each seems to have its limitations. I receive the RISCON metro zone okay, but not the north and south zones.

Other than something in the window, I cannot use any other external antennas.

Recommendations, please.

Just to clarify, the sds200 does not come with a rubber duck as the standard factory supplied antenna, it is a telescopic metal BNC antenna, my apologies if something has changed recently. It's not the greatest antenna in the world but it serves the purpose for some.

To increase reception moving the radio around and or antenna around you can see improvements.

There is a multitude of threads on radio reference regarding back of set antennas for scanners, I would recommend Googling your question several different ways and it will come up with multiple recommendations and multiple threads previously posted on radio reference.

If your primarily going to be listening to p25 7-800 MHz, ramtronixs makes a very good High Gain 7 - 800 MHz rubber duck that also performs fairly well on UHF but not so much on VHF High. You can get the BNC model and get a right angle adapter. They also make a wideband antenna that you can do the same thing with but there is some compromise in the 7-800 MHz area but if you're in a strong signal area it works fine and will give you improved reception on UHF and VHF High than the standard issue antenna.

In your Google search you're going to see many aftermarket antennas, feel free to ask about specific models.

My personal recommendation would be to purchase an inexpensive standing lamp from Walmart along with a broom handle and choose the outdoor antenna of your choice and get about 10 ft of low loss coax and mount that in your apartment near your radio. Make sure that you're able to move that standing lamp around.

You will need to protect your BNC connector on the back of the radio, perhaps fixing it to your table before connecting it to the radio. Of course you want to make sure that the standing lamp is capable of handling the size of the antenna.

Also is your Larson triband grounded with a pie plate or cookie sheet?

HTH.

 

[trentbob]

Through some research, I realized that using a mobile antenna inside an apartment requires a ground plane.

How big must it be, and is there a specific metal? I have a Larsen sitting on a windowsill and can possibly fabricate some metal on the windowsill. But how much do I need? Would a strip from under the antenna along the windowsill work?

I live in an apartment that is 250 ft above sea level, with unobstructed views to the north, south, and west.

I am planning to purchase the SDS 200 and would like to know if there is a better back-of-set antenna than the rubber duck supplied with the scanner. I'm primarily interested in the RI RISCON and MASS SP 800 systems along with UHF and some VHF high.

My HP I does a fair job, but does a terrible job with the P25 audio and thus the move to the SDS 200. As for an antenna, I have tried a Larson multi-band sitting in the window and the rubber duck. Each seems to have its limitations. I receive the RISCON metro zone okay, but not the north and south zones.

Other than something in the window, I cannot use any other external antennas.

Recommendations, please.

Ah, I realize now that you are a newbie and the first handful or so post you make will be moderated as per standard procedure and I did not see your second post until now. Using a steel pie plate or cookie sheet will work, this is usually paired with a magnetic mount, I assume you have an nmo connection.

Not sure if your proposed set up would work, ideally, if you had the room, and were actually able to find a used steel filing cabinet, you never know, that would be ideal. Near a window is just as ideal as on a window. Again location of the antenna is very important and sometimes moving it 5 in one way or the other can make a big difference, different sides of the room also. You are also affected by the type of insulation that you have, the type of construction of your apartment and the type of windows and any coatings there may be on them. This will end up being somewhat of a trial and error project.

 

[chiefj]

trentbob...Thanks for the advice. I have done A LOT of Googling, but it can be very confusing.

I have such a lamp but my wife would divorce me if I tried to rig up something like that.

Moving the radio is not an option only because the room, with its sloping attic-like ceiling, is set up where I have an easy chair with a small armchair side desk for my scanner and speakers, and is in front of the only window. The chair faces my TV. The apartment is on the top floor of a large brick building and its location was once an attic complete with sloping ceilings thoughout.

The window is the only place I can locate an antenna, and the scanner itself is within three feet of that window.

With my Googling research, it is evident any multi-band mobile antenna needs a ground plane. A 5-6" wide x 3' windowsill seems to be the only location I have to work with. Do you think a piece of metal of those dimensions and the mobile antenna positioned in the middle of this narrow strip, might perform well as a ground plane?

 

[trentbob]

A 5-6" wide x 3' windowsill seems to be the only location I have to work with. Do you think a piece of metal of those dimensions and the mobile antenna positioned in the middle of this narrow strip, might perform well as a ground plane?

Well as far as the wife goes, you're on your own there,😄... flowers, groveling?

With regard to your above question, honestly, I'm not sure if that would work or not, Maybe. Maybe some kind of a steel printer table on wheels? Some other type of small steel table that you could fìx the magnetic mount to and elevate?

Starting as a kid I have six decades of experience in radio but I don't consider myself an expert, let's hope that as the day and evening goes on, this thread attracts the attention of the experts who might have better suggestions or solutions to the grounding issue.

It's good that you're learning by researching search engines, you may find some who will just hand you links, personally I think you learn more, doing the leg work yourself, that's a positive step.

 

[chiefj]

Trentbob..., it looks like we have been involved with radio for a similar amount of time. However, I just dabbled in it and never really understood the electronics.

I started with a Hallicrafters SW and made a dipole for it. My father also taught me how to use the neutral side of the house's electric system to see if I got better reception.

Eventually got a low-band Regency tunable receiver and bought a military surplus ground plane for it. My radio/tv technician neighbor was nice enough to mount it outside two and a half stories up.

From there it was a few crystal scanners and now I have an HP I but want to graduate to the SDS 200. Much of the technology and terms I see on the forums is gibberish to me. Lol

Thanks for your help. I'm going to head over to Home Depot and see if I can get some metal to use as a ground plane and experiment with my Larsen. I did find a circular disc on Amazon that is advertised as a ground plane for someone who wants to do a mobile mount in a fiberglass camper.

 

[trentbob]

Yeppers, I started with slide rule dial receivers for public service before scanners existed.

Don't underestimate the time you've been exposed to radio as opposed to the radios you've had as experience.

You are one of those who will love this site. My impression is you will pick it up like a fish in water.

Again, let's hope that the old familiar experts will chime in and help you with your grounding issue, too many unknowns for me regarding your window frame Etc.

Welcome to radio reference.

 

[rf_patriot200]

Through some research, I realized that using a mobile antenna inside an apartment requires a ground plane.

How big must it be, and is there a specific metal? I have a Larsen sitting on a windowsill and can possibly fabricate some metal on the windowsill. But how much do I need? Would a strip from under the antenna along the windowsill work?

As mentioned, cookie sheets, Pizza Pans, the top of your A/C, outside on top. File cabinets and refrigerators, chest freezers work great too. Also if you have a Drop ceiling, the metal strips are usually steel, so slapping the magnet up there on the ceiling works well and obviously the higher the better.

 

[chiefj]

Thank you rf_patriot.

Yesterday I did some experimenting with my Larsen and some metal on the windowsill and I see an improvement. So I’m all set.

I will probably go ahead with the purchase of the SDS200.

 

[murphcc1]

Hi Chief, I also have a SDS200 with a Larsen Triband, the magnetic part of the antenna attaches to the metal corner bead at the top of my window, upside down, and the coax draped AWAY from the antenna at a 90* angle. Gets pretty good reception actually.

 

[chiefj]

murphcc1..Thank you. That is a good idea.

After yesterday's tests, I can see it is bringing in the P25 RI RISCON system very well. Today, I will add some VHF and UHF channels.

I have the perfect elevation and should be able to bring in lots of stations.

 

[kbrown1075]

murphcc1..Thank you. That is a good idea.

After yesterday's tests, I can see it is bringing in the P25 RI RISCON system very well. Today, I will add some VHF and UHF channels.

I have the perfect elevation and should be able to bring in lots of stations.

How far away from a RISCON site are you? If you're in fairly close proximity you may be just fine with the included telescopic antenna. When I moved to my current location, I went thru setting up an external antenna and all that good stuff, only to figure out that I live so close to a system site that I don't need any antenna at all. I do have the telescopic antenna on the scanner, but not extended. My background is 30 years in commercial radio service and about the same time as a ham. I love making and experimenting with antennas. Receiving doesn't require all the requirements that an antenna for a transmitter requires. Some of my best scanner antennas were just 18 gauge solid copper wire, stripped about an inch and stuck into the center contact of the BNC connector. Played with various different lengths for different frequencies. I had one wire antenna like this for over 20 years. It was siliconed around the wood trim of a window. Wife never even knew it was there. What works for one, may not work well for someone else. My thought is to start simple and cheap. I've bought expensive antennas that just turned out to be a disappointment, where another cost me $1.50 spool of wire from Radio Shack and worked incredibly well. Hind sight says I should have started with the Radio Shack wire!! LOL. Best of luck.

 

[chiefj]

kbrown..thanks. I appreciate your input.

I live in Mass, but very high in elevation. I can see the TF Green Beacon and wind turbines along 102 in Coventry.

A friend brought his SDS 200 over the other day and just using the expandable antenna, it was capturing everything from Westerly to Woonsocket and lots of conventional UHS and VHF stuff.

So I ordered on and am having problems with it. The Mass Storage option did not come up and it is not seeing the Favorites I had prepared in Sentinel. But that is another problem I am trying to address. I think it is a problem with the cable. My Sentinel program for my HP had no problem connecting.

 

[wtp]

i go the other way...
i set up the radio for the antenna it gets.
so the 800 band has a small antenna
the 400 radio get a 6 inch antenna
and the 150 band has the telescopic set to 18 inches.
the answer is always more radios !

 

[chiefj]

Looks like the expandable extended to about 18” is capturing everything.

 

[wtp]

any piece of metal can receive radio signals, some are better than others.
the length thing is based on transmitting and SWR.
it is then assumed that certain lengths work better for certain bands.
sometimes it works.
use what works best for you.

 

[chiefj]

Thanks. I know.

It gets complicated when you want one antenna for multiple bands.

The expandable that came with the set is working well on 800, UHF AND VHF.