Is there a good entry-level HF rig?
- Thread starter kfdcadet
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I'm not a big Icom fan but the IC-718 is about as simple as they get. I'm sure there a couple others out there but thats the only one I can think of at the moment. Some older radios like the kenwood TS-140 are good 1st rigs also as things were not as complicated with the rigs back then as they are now. Have fun with the search and welcome to the HF world. It is much fun!
k3td
Member
If you can find a clean ICOM IC-735 they have a very good receiver in them. If you are looking for something newer, the IC-706 also includes 6 meters. The later mkII-G model added DSP to the receiver.
n5ims
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Often times a "good entry level hf rig" would be one of the recent, but not current, model from one of the major radio brands. Something like a Kenwood TS-430 or TS-440, etc. Often times, they have the extra filters or other accessories. They're fairly easy to find at most hamfests, eBay, or online at ham radio specific sites. Some folks just have to have the current model and are willing to sell off their quite good, but now "outdated" old model that should do the job quite well for most folks, especially those just starting out.
If you shop around, you can probably find a good one that will allow you to use it for a while and resell it when you either want an upgrade or think a different model may work better for you. If you shop well and take good care of it the net cost for that "test period" could be zero. You may get lucky and make a few bucks on the deal even.
If you shop around, you can probably find a good one that will allow you to use it for a while and resell it when you either want an upgrade or think a different model may work better for you. If you shop well and take good care of it the net cost for that "test period" could be zero. You may get lucky and make a few bucks on the deal even.
TheSpaceMan
Member
The ICOM 718 is a great entry level HF radio. You can buy them brand new for around $700, or used for around $500.
I've used an Icom IC-718 and I wasn't all that impressed. Not enough receive filtering and tweaking to make the radio useful on a crowded band.
I've never used a Yaesu FT-450D, but, on paper, it seems like it might have a better receiver than the IC-718. It's DSP works at the IF stage rather than the AF stage. And, it includes an internal antenna tuner while the IC-718 does not. The FT-450D is about $200 more than then IC-718.
I've never used a Yaesu FT-450D, but, on paper, it seems like it might have a better receiver than the IC-718. It's DSP works at the IF stage rather than the AF stage. And, it includes an internal antenna tuner while the IC-718 does not. The FT-450D is about $200 more than then IC-718.
I also have been looking for a good entry level HF rig and members of my club directing me the Yeasu FT-450D. From all the reading I have done on it, this looks to be the best of the newer entry level rigs. Take a look at E-ham's reviews. I have not pulled the trigger yet.
Thats the other one I was tring to think of. For what it does the price is right on. The FT-450 is also a good rig if you have a couple extra hundred bucks to spend. A buddy of mine has one and I played with it for a while. It nice, the receiver is excellent and the dsp works. 6 meters is also nice to have.
I still use my trusty Kenwood TS-440AT. The thing is a work horse that won't quit and is simple to use. They're on the used market anywhere from $250-600 depending on condition. I'm seeing a TS590 in my future though.
Token
Member
This is a common question, what is a good entry level HF rig. And one would think the answer would be pretty easy, rig A, B, or C. However it is really a quite convoluted issue.
The best bang for the buck is probably going to be a few year old, one or two generation back, radio that was not entry level for its time. Unfortunately that can be a problem, are you getting a radio that has gone through 4 people because no one could figure out what was wrong with it? Are you getting a radio that someone else upgraded from because it was a dud? Or are you getting a well taken care of rig that works perfectly well but the owner just upgraded and no longer needs that particular rig?
The new user, typical of who might be looking for such a rig, is most often poorly equipped to make educated guesses as to the probable scenario behind the radio based on quick assessment at hamfest or similar situations. And so they are the more likely to end up with a poor performing / marginally broken problem child radio that someone else wanted to get rid of. Because of this I generally suggest to such a person that unless you have an Elmar or someone you trust to help you evaluate a radio before you purchase it avoid the used radio market until you have a little experience. Buy new, the chances of getting burned are much lower.
Then the field becomes much more narrow. Typically radios ranging from $530 to $1000 are in the entry class. Instead of looking for a radio with the most features look for one with feature sets that might apply to you, think about your use. Do you want an all in one radio, with 160 m to 70 cm? This is very tempting, but at the entry level this also means no dual band RX, so if you are working 2 meters you cannot also monitor 10 meters. This limitation is why I generally suggest the new user NOT get an all-in-one rig like the Icom IC-706, Icom IC-7000, or Yaesu FT897. Most newer users only use FM on 2m and 70cm, and a nice dual band can be had new for a couple hundred bucks, so I suggest getting an HF rig (HF+6m) and a separate VHF/UHF rig.
When people start talking about entry level radios of this type they say things like Rig X is OK, but lacks features or does not have the adjustability I desire. True, but that is typical of most entry level rigs. Sometimes people unconsciously compare them to radios in the next price range up. Be sure to compare apples to apples in feature sets and cost range.
The IC-718 is a good bare bones entry rig. Very low cost but very limited feature set. The Alinco DXSR8T is even lower cost and more bare bones. Between the two I prefer the 718, keep in mind neither radios have 6 meters. All other new rigs step up in price from these two, but also step up in features. Are you going to want an antenna tuner? I bet you will. So now you get up into the Yaesu FT-450 and Icom TS480SAT range of price. The FT-897 is in the same price range, but lacks a tuner and gets back to that whole all-in-one radio question.
And this is where I normally place a mark. My suggestion for the best entry level rig on the market today is the Kenwood TS-480SAT (not the 480HX, the extra power is not worth the loss of the tuner). Having used it side by side with the FT-450 I find the 480SAT RX to be a little bit better. I also like the packaging of the radio (remote head) and the display a little more in the Kenwood. For about $200 more than the IC-718 you get a lot more radio. This $200 would be about the cost of adding an external antenna tuner to the 718, but the 718 would still not be as capable a radio as the FT-450 or TS-480SAT.
As if that was not confusing enough, consider what antenna you plan on using. Remember I talked about internal antenna tuners and said that was a desirable feature? If you are forced to use a really substandard antenna an internal antenna tuner might not be able to tune the antenna. Typically internals are not as capable as externals, often being limited to fixing a 3:1 or less SWR. In such a case (poor antenna) even if your radio has an internal tuner you might end up needing an external tuner. I still think the TS-480SAT is a good choice, the receiver is very good.
In the end you have to look at your entire situation, think about the system you will be building (antennas, bands of interest, etc), not just the radio you want.
T!
The best bang for the buck is probably going to be a few year old, one or two generation back, radio that was not entry level for its time. Unfortunately that can be a problem, are you getting a radio that has gone through 4 people because no one could figure out what was wrong with it? Are you getting a radio that someone else upgraded from because it was a dud? Or are you getting a well taken care of rig that works perfectly well but the owner just upgraded and no longer needs that particular rig?
The new user, typical of who might be looking for such a rig, is most often poorly equipped to make educated guesses as to the probable scenario behind the radio based on quick assessment at hamfest or similar situations. And so they are the more likely to end up with a poor performing / marginally broken problem child radio that someone else wanted to get rid of. Because of this I generally suggest to such a person that unless you have an Elmar or someone you trust to help you evaluate a radio before you purchase it avoid the used radio market until you have a little experience. Buy new, the chances of getting burned are much lower.
Then the field becomes much more narrow. Typically radios ranging from $530 to $1000 are in the entry class. Instead of looking for a radio with the most features look for one with feature sets that might apply to you, think about your use. Do you want an all in one radio, with 160 m to 70 cm? This is very tempting, but at the entry level this also means no dual band RX, so if you are working 2 meters you cannot also monitor 10 meters. This limitation is why I generally suggest the new user NOT get an all-in-one rig like the Icom IC-706, Icom IC-7000, or Yaesu FT897. Most newer users only use FM on 2m and 70cm, and a nice dual band can be had new for a couple hundred bucks, so I suggest getting an HF rig (HF+6m) and a separate VHF/UHF rig.
When people start talking about entry level radios of this type they say things like Rig X is OK, but lacks features or does not have the adjustability I desire. True, but that is typical of most entry level rigs. Sometimes people unconsciously compare them to radios in the next price range up. Be sure to compare apples to apples in feature sets and cost range.
The IC-718 is a good bare bones entry rig. Very low cost but very limited feature set. The Alinco DXSR8T is even lower cost and more bare bones. Between the two I prefer the 718, keep in mind neither radios have 6 meters. All other new rigs step up in price from these two, but also step up in features. Are you going to want an antenna tuner? I bet you will. So now you get up into the Yaesu FT-450 and Icom TS480SAT range of price. The FT-897 is in the same price range, but lacks a tuner and gets back to that whole all-in-one radio question.
And this is where I normally place a mark. My suggestion for the best entry level rig on the market today is the Kenwood TS-480SAT (not the 480HX, the extra power is not worth the loss of the tuner). Having used it side by side with the FT-450 I find the 480SAT RX to be a little bit better. I also like the packaging of the radio (remote head) and the display a little more in the Kenwood. For about $200 more than the IC-718 you get a lot more radio. This $200 would be about the cost of adding an external antenna tuner to the 718, but the 718 would still not be as capable a radio as the FT-450 or TS-480SAT.
As if that was not confusing enough, consider what antenna you plan on using. Remember I talked about internal antenna tuners and said that was a desirable feature? If you are forced to use a really substandard antenna an internal antenna tuner might not be able to tune the antenna. Typically internals are not as capable as externals, often being limited to fixing a 3:1 or less SWR. In such a case (poor antenna) even if your radio has an internal tuner you might end up needing an external tuner. I still think the TS-480SAT is a good choice, the receiver is very good.
In the end you have to look at your entire situation, think about the system you will be building (antennas, bands of interest, etc), not just the radio you want.
T!
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I got my license in July 2012. I went with two radios. Kenwood 480SAT and Yaesu 817ND. The Yaesu is fun and quite portable, but I purchased the 480SAT, to get the job done. It is my main radio at home, but I have used it mobile as well. I should also note that I use 10-80M much more than 2M/440.
- Built in tuner (It tunes at least 6:1 for me)
- Remote head w/speaker = flexibility of placement
- Plenty of buttons, so I don't have to go deep into the menu for changes
- Nice display, so I don't have to switch views all the time to see what's going on
- Dual antenna ports are perfect for me, as I use an OCF dipole and a vertical for different bands
- Works fine with computer for SSTV, PSK, via HRD. (You'll need two other cables to do this)
Token notes many reasons as well toward the 480SAT. Indeed the internal tuner versus the extra watts of the 480HX works for me. If it blew up, I would buy another 480SAT tomorrow. All that being said, you noted bang for you buck. This has me thinking of Yaesu 857D, or 897D. If you know you're going to use 2M/70cm then either might work for you. You'll need to drop a couple of hundred more for a tuner as well. Now, if you only plan on getting 2M/440 to ragchew on a repeater, a $50 Baofeng may be all you need for that. A lot depends on how far away the repeaters are in your area. I have full quieting using 5w into a repeater 90+ miles away using a discone antenna. I've even worked satellites using the rubber duck antenna that came with the radio. Now if you know you're going to use simplex with someone, then the extra watts of the Yaesu might be the solution. What's right for me, may not work for you. Remember, the 480SAT can always turn down in watts if you want to go QRP.
- Built in tuner (It tunes at least 6:1 for me)
- Remote head w/speaker = flexibility of placement
- Plenty of buttons, so I don't have to go deep into the menu for changes
- Nice display, so I don't have to switch views all the time to see what's going on
- Dual antenna ports are perfect for me, as I use an OCF dipole and a vertical for different bands
- Works fine with computer for SSTV, PSK, via HRD. (You'll need two other cables to do this)
Token notes many reasons as well toward the 480SAT. Indeed the internal tuner versus the extra watts of the 480HX works for me. If it blew up, I would buy another 480SAT tomorrow. All that being said, you noted bang for you buck. This has me thinking of Yaesu 857D, or 897D. If you know you're going to use 2M/70cm then either might work for you. You'll need to drop a couple of hundred more for a tuner as well. Now, if you only plan on getting 2M/440 to ragchew on a repeater, a $50 Baofeng may be all you need for that. A lot depends on how far away the repeaters are in your area. I have full quieting using 5w into a repeater 90+ miles away using a discone antenna. I've even worked satellites using the rubber duck antenna that came with the radio. Now if you know you're going to use simplex with someone, then the extra watts of the Yaesu might be the solution. What's right for me, may not work for you. Remember, the 480SAT can always turn down in watts if you want to go QRP.
DaddyHam
Member
I'm testing for my general on 2/2/20123. This discussion has been very informative. Thanks for the contributors to this question.
Eric
KK4MWM
Eric
KK4MWM
k3cfc
Silent Key
I have a kenwood ts430s,ts450s,ts480hx. while the 430 craped out i repaired it i love all of them. i bought my 480 for $800.00 a far cry from new and it is only 11 months old and looks like new.
Hope this helps.
K3CFC
Hope this helps.
K3CFC
W2NJS
Member
Slight correction...
Actually, the Icom IC-706MK2G covers 80 meters through 70 cm, which means that in addition to the HF through 6 meter bands it also does the 2 meter and 440 mHz hambands. I had one for several years, but I used it only for VHF and UHF work. As opposed to the standard dualband VHF/UHF radios sold today, the 706 will also do SSB in addition to AM and FM on all of its bands. Great, flexible radio...however, I found it a real pain to operate, in that most of the controls are dual function, as opposed to a "regular" HF radio such as the IC718 where one control does only one thing. The Icom 7000, which followed the 706, is an all-around better radio, and Icom also now has a model 7100 which you may also want to take a look at. The 706 probably finds its best niche as a mobile where the owner wants to do HF, VHF, and UHF. From an operational point of view I would certainly recommend that you actually sit down and try anything you're considering buying before you shell out the money.
Actually, the Icom IC-706MK2G covers 80 meters through 70 cm, which means that in addition to the HF through 6 meter bands it also does the 2 meter and 440 mHz hambands. I had one for several years, but I used it only for VHF and UHF work. As opposed to the standard dualband VHF/UHF radios sold today, the 706 will also do SSB in addition to AM and FM on all of its bands. Great, flexible radio...however, I found it a real pain to operate, in that most of the controls are dual function, as opposed to a "regular" HF radio such as the IC718 where one control does only one thing. The Icom 7000, which followed the 706, is an all-around better radio, and Icom also now has a model 7100 which you may also want to take a look at. The 706 probably finds its best niche as a mobile where the owner wants to do HF, VHF, and UHF. From an operational point of view I would certainly recommend that you actually sit down and try anything you're considering buying before you shell out the money.
AC9BX
Member
While it isn't the best choice for mobile use and only has a few Watts of output I would certainly look at a Flex-1500 if you are interested in a software defined radio. This is a terrific little radio, loads of features, for a good price. It isn't the performer a "contest" rig may be but it's definitely better than an "entry level" one. You can add on an amplifier for more power.
An "Entry Level" radio.
I have a different view of that sort of thing. I certainly know about keeping things cheap, but I also understand (from experience) that starting 'small' and working your way 'up' isn't always the cheapest or easiest way of going about it.
If you've never owned, played with, or used a 'ham radio' they are a bit different, more complicated than other radios. That means that reading that manual is THE starting point. Then it's a matter of figuring out, "Just what the #3(( does that mean?", you know? So, why not start with something that you may keep and use for a while? It may be a little more 'wallet pain' and take longer to learn to use, but most 'screaming wallets' calm down after a while, and learning how to use something is ALWAYS something you'll have to do.
Absolute best advice I can think of is to get your hands on, sit in front of and play with any/all radios you think you may like. That's also the most unlikely thing to happen, but it's still the best advice I can think of. Oh well.
Very few 'radio nutz' ever are satisfied with the first radio they get, or only ever have just one radio at a time. (Substitute any other kind of 'nut' for that 'radio' nut thingy, it always happens.)
Figure out what you can afford and what's available. Get it, play with it, find out what you don't like about it and look for something that doesn't have those "faults". That's about as 'normal' as it gets.
- 'Doc
I have a different view of that sort of thing. I certainly know about keeping things cheap, but I also understand (from experience) that starting 'small' and working your way 'up' isn't always the cheapest or easiest way of going about it.
If you've never owned, played with, or used a 'ham radio' they are a bit different, more complicated than other radios. That means that reading that manual is THE starting point. Then it's a matter of figuring out, "Just what the #3(( does that mean?", you know? So, why not start with something that you may keep and use for a while? It may be a little more 'wallet pain' and take longer to learn to use, but most 'screaming wallets' calm down after a while, and learning how to use something is ALWAYS something you'll have to do.
Absolute best advice I can think of is to get your hands on, sit in front of and play with any/all radios you think you may like. That's also the most unlikely thing to happen, but it's still the best advice I can think of. Oh well.
Very few 'radio nutz' ever are satisfied with the first radio they get, or only ever have just one radio at a time. (Substitute any other kind of 'nut' for that 'radio' nut thingy, it always happens.)
Figure out what you can afford and what's available. Get it, play with it, find out what you don't like about it and look for something that doesn't have those "faults". That's about as 'normal' as it gets.
- 'Doc
k3cfc
Silent Key
I bought a buddipole a few months back. i looked all they had to offer and got the best one they had. like Lt doc said working your way up the line will cost twice as much for the radio you wanted in the first place.
K3CFC
K3CFC
I for one Vote for the IC 718 you can buy them new some places as low as as 599.00$ and the newer ones come with DSP. throw yourself up an LPW antenna with the ICOM antenna tuner (the controls for it are conveniently built into the 718 and work the world) the 718 goes clear up to 10 meters in all modes. and since it is a 12 volt rig when you have the money to invest in the gee whiz this thing is blowing all the circuits in my head with what it can do, you have a rig that you can whip out and run on batteries or solar or both on FIELD DAY without tearing your station apart,and operating it will be like second nature because it was your "learning radio"// and who can beat an HF radio new for like 600$ with DSP and a warranty ??
ESM
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