Is there a prov com Fire Frequency?

[Jammin_Jay]

I heard a call on the scanner regarding a search and rescue, between 3 different counties, and 1 county had an interoperability problem and couldn't talk to the dispatch of the other county fire dispatch, and had to use one of the fireman's own radio to communicate, cause he couldnt with his to keep up to date with the search and rescue of a child who fell into a river here in Eastern Ontario. I am curious to know other than FMO 154.070 Mhz. Is there a provincial common link to fire depts in ontario, like there is with MHO and OPP. Especially if one dept is on a Trunking system and another is just VHF conventional and they need to communicate. If there isn't I think one should be implemented. Just goes to show there is still work to be done with interoperability problems between local/county/provincial communication systems. Especially when time is of the essence, like in this case. Maybe some other members around the province have notice some examples of this.

 

[EJB]

During snow events and traffic nightmares the MTO & OPP did not communicate with each other on Fleetnet, they relied on 10-21's i.e. cell phones.
Perhaps your event did the same?

 

[Jammin_Jay]

Cell phones are good for communication, except, cell phones are in 1 direct contact between 2 parties. Where as all parties involved in the event should be able to hear all communications, one one frequency, to make split second decisions. Relay information on a cell phone to a dispatcher then a dispatcher to the radio then the radio to another person, costs time. Time is of the essence in search and rescue and other timely events, that i believe should have a simulataneous radio communication response. Unless u can link the cell phone into the radio system so Everyone can hear it, by all means, it would help. As we have more big events happen throughout the province, more and more of this will be noticeable, and perhaps brung to the table, who knows. Its just my thoughts on the matter. Perhaps some of this is readily available, but hasn't been tested or not of importance to program radios to interoperate with one another for specific depts to communicate with each other. MOH should be able to talk to OPP, and fire should be able to talk to OPP and MOH and vice versa.

 

[Forts]

It's typically the OFM frequency that I've seen used around here. About a year or so ago, London sent a rescue unit and aerial truck out the Ingersoll way (I think that's where it was) to help with a technical rescue. All comms for that were on the OFM and co-ordinated by Woodstock control. There was also a large junkyard fire in London a year or so back where they ended up calling in one of the crash trucks from the airport so they could get closer to the fire. London Airport FD is on a uhf system, with LFD 800mhz and comms were an issue there as I don't believe the airport guys had access to the OFM channel.

 

[hemi]

last year Brighton had a huge grass/forest fire that water bombers where call into. The fire department gacve Opp a few portables and evacuations and such where all cooridinated on ofm 154.0700. When that big pile up on the 401 with the tanker explosion by Grafton happened this winter, Opp where constantly asking the dispatcher to ask the ambulance this or that. I thought one of the main reasons for fleetnet was so all the Ont Gov agentcies could comunicate in disasters like that? Is'nt that the public safty t.g.s are for?

 

[exkalibur]

The following are assigned as Provincial Common for the various agencies:

Police: 142.7700 (OPC)
Police: 141.5850 (OPC Simplex)
Fire: 154.0700 (OFM 1)
Fire: 154.1900 (OFM 2)
EMS: 150.1000 (PCOM)
EMS: 149.6050 (PTAC)
EMO: 148.6650

I haven't heard anything on the EMO channel in years, but pre-fleetnet, it was used now and then - you'd hear radio checks between OPP Comm Centres and EMS CACCs and the like.

 

[Jammin_Jay]

I agree 100% that the government fleetnet system should be interoperable. It may be, but nobody has been taught how to use the function if one exists in dispatch consoles. It also may be that the radio service provider BMR has yet to work on completing the Whole system for All of Ontario, including all zones, before such a feature is implemented into the system and taught to the various agencies MOH, MTO, OPP on how to co-ordinate interagency radio communications. Just my guess.

 

[exkalibur]

The OPP have direct access (as in, it's programmed in their radios) to several common talkgroups.

The biggest issue is that when there's an incident going on, the last thing the officers need to be doing is monkeying around with their radio.

It'd be nice if some thought would have been put into inter-op when Fleetnet was designed. The OPP have their Tactical channels, but what they should have done was create 5 or 6 analog Incident channels...something like "1COM01" or something that would be common to everyone on fleetnet - OPP, MTO, MNR, MOH, etc.. which could be used at a scene, and could be patched with other talkgroups as needed. This way, there'd be none of the "can you advise ambulance of this" or "can you advise MTO of this"...

In a perfect world... (bell wouldn't run things)

 

[mikewazowski]

t also may be that the radio service provider BMR has yet to work on completing the Whole system for All of Ontario, including all zones, before such a feature is implemented into the system and taught to the various agencies MOH, MTO, OPP on how to co-ordinate interagency radio communications.

It's there and it's been taught.

It just doesn't get used.

It's all about politics.

The OPP has an onscene commander, the MOH has a supervisor and the fire department has the Chief. All run their own departments and have no need for somebody else telling their crews what to do.

Perhaps in a very large scale disaster interoperability between supervisors would be handy but for most incidents, it's not needed. As Exalibur said, units onscene don't need to be monkeying with their radios. Let the higher ups coordinate. If possible, put them all in a command centre where they have instant access to each other.

The initial example provided is a poor example. It appears that one agency needs to review it's interoperability. There should be no reason why units at the scene can't switch to OFM Common and talk with any other fire department at the scene. Doesn't matter whether they're trunked, uhf, vhf, etc. Proper equipment should be in place to allow all agencies to communicate on OFM. Hamilton and Burlington have incompatible 800Mhz trunking systems but they can switch to an I-TAC channel and communicate. They can also link a talkgroup to OFM for communications with other departments on VHF.

154.1900Mhz is the OFM's office channel and in general, not to be used except for the Fire Marshall. Hamilton used to run encryption on this channel back in the 80's. I suspect there's a Fleetnet equivalent (besides the PCFIRE talkgroup).

148.6550 is a common public safety channel which can be used by all public safety agencies.

In Simcoe County, most departments have the capability to talk on another department's frequency. As well, they have access to a common County Wide simplex channel as well as OFM.

 

[Jammin_Jay]

Its just strange hearing an opp officer ask the comm centre if they have a direct link to ambulance and then the dispatcher saying "negative", but that he/she would call the MOH dispatch and relay the message. And i have heard this more than once. Its mainly to do with directing the ambulance to the right location. But i am sure others know what i am talking about. That idea that exkalibur had of 1com1 all agency talkgroup is a good example. What if there is a wide area disaster. U need to be able to have the communication interoperability there. Even though its not required in most cases, it just takes that 1 case where it is. It needs to be acknowledged, tested and practiced through the communication systems. The OPP have been doing radio tests every so often with local Police agencies through my part of the province on OPC 142.770. A few times a month, every month, basically an acknowledgement of OPP car to Local police car, and both of there cars to the com center, its about a 5 min test, on different towers. I suppose that's a start.

 

[mikewazowski]

Its just strange hearing an opp officer ask the comm centre if they have a direct link to ambulance and then the dispatcher saying "negative", but that he/she would call the MOH dispatch and relay the message.

Then they do have a direct link. It's called the phone :lol:

Just think of the confusion if the OPP jumped on the MOH talkgroup to direct an ambulance. The MOH dispatcher could have a priority call and the OPP dispatcher has tied up the frequency.

I'm sure they could have switched the ambulance over to a common talkgroup but one dispatcher would have had to assume control of the situation. I'm not sure if they could have spared anybody.

That idea that exkalibur had of 1com1 all agency talkgroup is a good example.

To replace the PCSAF talkgroups? They've already got some interoperability talkgroups, they just don't use them.

The talkgroups are already there, it's just a matter of using them.

 

[exkalibur]

The PCSAF groups are a good idea, if everyone had them. MTO, for example do not. I've never heard much of anything on them, and fairly few radios have been seen on it. Mind you, it is currently afiliated on the Hamilton site...

 

[exkalibur]

The PCSAF groups are a good idea, if everyone had them. MTO, for example do not. I've never heard much of anything on them, and fairly few radios have been seen on it. Mind you, it is currently afiliated on the Hamilton site...

 

[mikewazowski]

I believe the MTO Enforcement officers have them just not the plows. Perhaps the MTO Maintenance supervisors have access to them?

If it's a big deal and the MTO plows are needed, I'm sure somebody could give a radio to the MTO supervisor and he could dispatch the plows. From what I've heard on the plow talkgroups, I'm not sure you would want them directly on the talkgroup. I don't think they've had the radio training that the other agencies have had.