MTS/MCS Is there anything a civilian can do with the MTS2000?

[thorosaurus]

I think I already know the answer, but I'll ask anyways because they're insanely cheap on Ebay.

They're 800 mhz. Are there any frequencies in that range that I could legally use?

 

[kayn1n32008]

Nope.

 

[thorosaurus]

Nope.

Even with a license?

 

[kayn1n32008]

Even with a license?

I doubt the FCC would issue you a conventional/simplex license on 800MHz.

 

[StaticDischarge]

Here is some reading for you to do: Improving Public Safety Communications in the 800 MHz Band which shall satisfy your questions...

 

[mmckenna]

Even with a license?

800MHz isn't a good choice for use in mountains/heavy foliage. It'll work, but you'll get much more distance with lower frequencies.

You are not going to get a simplex 800MHz channel from the FCC. They license frequency pairs for repeater use. Once you have that, you can run in talk around mode, but it's probably not going to do what you want.

MTS-2000's are 20+ years old. Many of them beat half to death and the LCD displays are missing pixels. Parts are no longer available and programming software isn't the type of thing for a new person to learn on.

I dumped about 300 MTS-2000's back about 8 years ago when I replaced my trunked system. Most of them went to e-waste since there was zero market for them. Some of the ones you'll find on e-Bay were not rebanded, so won't work on the existing band plan anyway.

 

[thorosaurus]

800MHz isn't a good choice for use in mountains/heavy foliage. It'll work, but you'll get much more distance with lower frequencies.

You are not going to get a simplex 800MHz channel from the FCC. They license frequency pairs for repeater use. Once you have that, you can run in talk around mode, but it's probably not going to do what you want.

MTS-2000's are 20+ years old. Many of them beat half to death and the LCD displays are missing pixels. Parts are no longer available and programming software isn't the type of thing for a new person to learn on.

I dumped about 300 MTS-2000's back about 8 years ago when I replaced my trunked system. Most of them went to e-waste since there was zero market for them. Some of the ones you'll find on e-Bay were not rebanded, so won't work on the existing band plan anyway.

But they're so cheap!

So let's say for argument's sake I could get some rebanded ones really cheap. Would they do what I want them to? I.e. do encrypted communication over a small area?

 

[mmckenna]

Not "encryption". Since these are analog radios, about the best you'll be able to do is some voice inversion scrambling. Not very secure by any measure.

And licensing won't happen, unless you do it properly.

Radios that old are not going to be a good investment unless you have the time, money and equipment to maintain them. And even then, you'll be fighting an uphill battle.

Honestly, you are going about this the wrong way. Looking for "cheap" first, then adding requirements like encryption, coverage, etc. is going to turn out to be a not very cheap solution. Figuring out what your needs are should be your first step. Leave the e-Bay surfing until you figure out what you need. I've seen way too many people try and make systems this way, and I've never once seen it work. I have been in the position of trying to make butchered together systems work after the fact, and it gets expensive. It really is much cheaper to do it right the first time.

 

[thorosaurus]

Not "encryption". Since these are analog radios, about the best you'll be able to do is some voice inversion scrambling. Not very secure by any measure.

And licensing won't happen, unless you do it properly.

Radios that old are not going to be a good investment unless you have the time, money and equipment to maintain them. And even then, you'll be fighting an uphill battle.

Honestly, you are going about this the wrong way. Looking for "cheap" first, then adding requirements like encryption, coverage, etc. is going to turn out to be a not very cheap solution. Figuring out what your needs are should be your first step. Leave the e-Bay surfing until you figure out what you need. I've seen way too many people try and make systems this way, and I've never once seen it work. I have been in the position of trying to make butchered together systems work after the fact, and it gets expensive. It really is much cheaper to do it right the first time.

So given my requirements, what would be doing it right, in your opinion?

 

[rapidcharger]

But they're so cheap!

So let's say for argument's sake I could get some rebanded ones really cheap. Would they do what I want them to? I.e. do encrypted communication over a small area?

There are better, legal and possibly even cheaper ways to accomplish what you want to do.

 

[a417]

Zello.

just download the app.

 

[thorosaurus]

There are better, legal and possibly even cheaper ways to accomplish what you want to do.

I'm all ears, especially the cheaper part!

 

[StaticDischarge]

How bout a couple of soup cans and some string?? At least if there isn't anybody close enough to hear you or the other party there's your encryption over the distance..??
Really though, you have not giving a definable description of what it is you are truly trying to do here... So for the sake of it all a couple of CB radios would probably suffice...

 

[mmckenna]

For 1 square mile? There's a ton of cheap, legal and decent radios that will do what you want.

FRS/GMRS/MURS/CB. Trying too hard to hide what you are doing is just going to draw more attention to yourself.

Zello is a good option. So is WiFi radios. It wouldn't be difficult to set up a simple WiFi network and connect your users. Encryption on WiFi is going to be reliable and easy. It also gives you a lot more options like video feeds, monitoring gates, etc.

If you want obscurity, buying high power radios isn't the way to do it. You're just sending up the RF equivalent of aerial flares.

 

[clbsquared]

Hire a frequency coordinator. Explain to them what you want to do with the radios. Let them tell you what will and will not work for your area. Cost is about $700.00 and will include applying for the license through the FCC.

 

[thorosaurus]

Hire a frequency coordinator. Explain to them what you want to do with the radios. Let them tell you what will and will not work for your area. Cost is about $700.00 and will include applying for the license through the FCC.

That's a pretty big chunk of what I want to spend total.

 

[clbsquared]

That's a pretty big chunk of what I want to spend total.

Yes, but it's cheaper than getting caught and fined by the FCC for hijacking an 800 MHz frequency that you shouldn't be using.

 

[thorosaurus]

For 1 square mile? There's a ton of cheap, legal and decent radios that will do what you want.

FRS/GMRS/MURS/CB. Trying too hard to hide what you are doing is just going to draw more attention to yourself.

Zello is a good option. So is WiFi radios. It wouldn't be difficult to set up a simple WiFi network and connect your users. Encryption on WiFi is going to be reliable and easy. It also gives you a lot more options like video feeds, monitoring gates, etc.

If you want obscurity, buying high power radios isn't the way to do it. You're just sending up the RF equivalent of aerial flares.

If the internet is still up, then I would have no need of these things.

While I definitely respect your knowledge, I disagree that encryption is more of a liability than an asset. Especially if I'm going to be giving these things to neighbors after it hits the fan, some kind of secret code isn't going to work. I'm sure that's something that could be developed over a period of time, but I want to just hand them the thing and not have to worry about someone overhearing anything they might say.

Encryption is kind of the whole chalupa here. If I didn't want encryption, I would just get some Baofengs and program to the MURS frequencies and be done with it.

 

[mmckenna]

That's a pretty big chunk of what I want to spend total.

Then you need to rethink your plan, or rethink your budget. Your expectations/desires are not matching up with your budget. Something has to change, either more money or change your design.

1 square mile isn't hard to cover. MURS is a good option. Ditch the encryption, because honestly no one cares what you are talking about. If you keep your power level down to just what you need to cover that square mile, and finding ways to discuss your operations without using obvious language, you're home free.

Your approach of wanting to buy used radios randomly off eBay with a budget that is too low and not a clear idea of what you need is setting yourself up for failure. Seen it happen too many times before. It's almost like you are reading a script of all the other times I've seen this happen.

 

[thorosaurus]

Yes, but it's cheaper than getting caught and fined by the FCC for hijacking an 800 MHz frequency that you shouldn't be using.

Well one thing you have to realize is that I wouldn't be using these under normal circumstances. In any situation where I'm actually using them, the FCC no longer exists. So please keep that in mind.