Is there increased noise on MW compared to Summer 2022 in the Great Lakes?

[abcfox]

I am in eastern Ohio.

From 2020-2022 I was able to listen to stations like WBBM from 320 miles away at listenable quality along with other very weak stations like on 770 all day.


This year these stations aren't really listenable.

I've checked my connectors and I've seen on 780 some indications that the noise floor may have risen on my radio- a sony xdr-s10hdip- on 780. normally when the loop is pointed north and tuned to 780 no signal bars appear on the radio's screen. This year on some days I've checked one bar appears.

The reception I get sounds like a firm hash-a bit coarse but mostly like atmospheric noise. Those days were days free of thunderstorms for a 100 mile radius.

Using the GE Superradio II outside I couldn't hear much difference from last year. The only electrical buzzing I get most consistently is on 710 but that was there in prior years. And sometimes in September mornings I can hear WOR faintly at 9 a.m.

All signs point to increased atmospheric noise but is there any basis on that? I've read as HF propagation improves MW propagation fails. A lot of hams have been reporting good contacts this year compared to last year.

Based on ear I believe the noise floor has risen 10 db since last summer.

The loop used is PK C-LOOP-HDARAM

Has daytime MW reception deteriorated from last summer?

 

[krokus]

I wonder if your noise floor has increased? With the solar cycle being conducive to good propagation, maybe getting more noise from everywhere.

 

[WA8ZTZ]

Summertime listening on the AM BCB is always a challenge day or night.
However, your perceived rise in noise floor may be due to local RFI/EMI and not atmospherics (QRM vs QRN).
The fact that you can hear the New York station at 0900 in September is not too surprising as the D layer has probably not had
time to build up given the increasingly later sunrise times.
My benchmark is WLW AM 700. It can be heard faint but readable here daytime year around (plus or minus the local QRM).
QRM here this morning is bad but WLW can be heard faintly underneath it.
Anyway, daytime listening on the AM band is usually pretty constant ground wave and not too dependent on propagation.

 

[merlin]

I live in a very high noise area plus out of band interference.
I conclude the noise is mostly locally generated and believe the same holds true for your area.
2 Years is long enough that a great amount of noise generators to come into your region.
Wall warts, cell phones, computers, Thermostats etc. all contribute to noise.
There is also such a thing as solar noise. Why your noise floor is lower at night.
When I do my mountain cabin, MW is dead during the day but notable noise.
Night, the noise is all but gone but AM BC skip wave comes in strong from all over north America.
At my post, I get KSL Salt Lake 24/7. 175 miles. So this is like NVIS during the day, and fringe sky wave at night.
The antenna is 140 foot EF longwire through a tuner, then to optional preselector.
The latter often helps a lot.
Then to my HF rig.
Here is a note also: If you loose a station, don't rule out it has gone dark.
AM broadcast stations are dropping like flies.

 

[abcfox]

I wonder if your noise floor has increased? With the solar cycle being conducive to good propagation, maybe getting more noise from everywhere.

I was wondering that as well.

I moved my antenna 15-20 feet to the right and my reception has improved considerably;however WBBM sound like it has an SNR of just barely 15 db.

It's definitely readable but not pleasant. 13-15 db is somewhere in my threhsold for not getting fatigue

 

[abcfox]

Summertime listening on the AM BCB is always a challenge day or night.
However, your perceived rise in noise floor may be due to local RFI/EMI and not atmospherics (QRM vs QRN).
The fact that you can hear the New York station at 0900 in September is not too surprising as the D layer has probably not had
time to build up given the increasingly later sunrise times.
My benchmark is WLW AM 700. It can be heard faint but readable here daytime year around (plus or minus the local QRM).
QRM here this morning is bad but WLW can be heard faintly underneath it.
Anyway, daytime listening on the AM band is usually pretty constant ground wave and not too dependent on propagation.

Does your QRM sound like white noise?

 

[13dka]

(Natural) noise levels on MW can vary of course, depending on season and also propagation, but not so much during the day. The exact time does play a role though, the closer you get to winter the shorter the "medium wave noon" (no skywave component) will be, and outside of that time window skywave becomes a factor again and can enhance reception, or the lack of that enhancement can become obvious (and worrisome). That's also (probably) why daytime MW DX is perceived as worse in summer, when that "MW noon" is pretty long. When skywave becomes a factor it also plays a role where we are in the solar cycle, high solar activity in the maximum seems to be rather detrimental to MW (due to increased D-layer absorption).

So if you want to compare reception of a station in 2 different years, you basically need to make sure you compare reception at the same time of day and a very similar date. If your listening time wasn't around the highest sun elevation, skywave effects and hence solar activity will play a role again.

But yeah, manmade noise confusingly sounding like regular atmospheric (white) noise (QRN) is what keeps creeping up everywhere and more likely the explanation. The only way to really stay on top of this is making actual measurements of the noise floor (that's something an SDRPlay RSP is great for) under very controlled circumstances (same antenna, same position, same time and same frequency/baseband ranges) to have a reference.

There is also such a thing as solar noise. Why your noise floor is lower at night.

Yes, the sun can emit radio noise but not on MW. The noise is very wideband with its center (AFAIK) up in the UHF range but the lowest frequency where this can be observed (measured) is above 10MHz (typical spectrum plots show the region above 20MHz). Pretty plot of a solar noise storm:

 

[mancow]

I assumed it was absorbtion due to increased solar activity. If you watch the maps at solarham there is often degradation below 40 meters.

 

[Boombox]

One other factor to consider is that this solar cycle may not be as hot as advertised. I've noticed that MW DX conditions (daytime as well as night) in my region (NW US) are simply nothing like they were in 2011-2015. A little better than they were at the depths of the minimum a couple years ago, but nothing like they would be otherwise. The noise floor here is about the same as it was in 2012 here, too. Everything basically the same except for the propagation.

 

[krokus]

Maybe try a loop on ground antenna, to see it it lowers your noise floor.

 

[ka3jjz]

The OP is using a PK C-LOOP-HDARAM. It's a new antenna from PK antennas, and you can find others like it here

PK’s Loop Antennas

Mike

 

[WA8ZTZ]

Does your QRM sound like white noise?

It varies but usually more like buzzing.

 

[ka3jjz]

Buzzing? By chance any power lines or transformers nearby? This smells like a power issue of some kind, not with the Superadio if you're always using batteries. Anything with an el cheapo (read: Japanese or Chinese) switching power adapter nearby? Almost certainly something along these lines. Can you sniff it out tuning the radio to any empty channel (while hearing the buzzing) and walk around to see where the culprit is?

Mike

 

[Boombox]

I've read as HF propagation improves MW propagation fails. A lot of hams have been reporting good contacts this year compared to last year.

I recall reading that in the past but personal experience states otherwise. The MW band (the higher MW band especially) exhibits some lower SW characteristics. The times I've had best MW DX results were during solar maxima. Some other MWDXers I've interacted with online seem to agree that Solar maxima also give you better MW DX -- depending on the quality of the Solar maxima, of course.

I have also heard hams mention improved contacts from last year, and tuning across the 20 Meter band you can tell it's a bit better than the last couple years.

But I've also heard hams complaining about the higher bands being more or less MIA, even when the cycle appears to be up. Some of them are wondering why the sunspots are up but the higher bands are dead.

So there may be several factors at issue here. I hope you are able to work out your noise issue. I would try to nail it down with your Superadio. If you can't, it could be just the general MW conditions in your area.

FWIW, MW DX conditions here where I live (Western WA state) are nowhere near as good as they were ten to eleven years ago, and they haven't really improved all that much from the recent minimum in 2018-2019.

PS, the Sony XDR is a terrific MW DX machine. I have the boombox version. Awesome on MW, even with a 3 ft simple loop of wire.

 

[WA8ZTZ]

Buzzing? By chance any power lines or transformers nearby? This smells like a power issue of some kind, not with the Superadio if you're always using batteries. Anything with an el cheapo (read: Japanese or Chinese) switching power adapter nearby? Almost certainly something along these lines. Can you sniff it out tuning the radio to any empty channel (while hearing the buzzing) and walk around to see where the culprit is?

Mike

Mike,
The buzzing was in reply to a question asked by the OP... see post #6.

FWIW, my QTH is located in the heart of suburban noise hell, a constantly changing assortment of QRM as neighbors add/subtract all sorts of RFI/EMI spewing garbage... oh, and forgot to mention noisy connections, etc. on the aging overhead power lines.

 

[abcfox]

I recall reading that in the past but personal experience states otherwise. The MW band (the higher MW band especially) exhibits some lower SW characteristics. The times I've had best MW DX results were during solar maxima. Some other MWDXers I've interacted with online seem to agree that Solar maxima also give you better MW DX -- depending on the quality of the Solar maxima, of course.

I have also heard hams mention improved contacts from last year, and tuning across the 20 Meter band you can tell it's a bit better than the last couple years.

But I've also heard hams complaining about the higher bands being more or less MIA, even when the cycle appears to be up. Some of them are wondering why the sunspots are up but the higher bands are dead.

So there may be several factors at issue here. I hope you are able to work out your noise issue. I would try to nail it down with your Superadio. If you can't, it could be just the general MW conditions in your area.

FWIW, MW DX conditions here where I live (Western WA state) are nowhere near as good as they were ten to eleven years ago, and they haven't really improved all that much from the recent minimum in 2018-2019.

PS, the Sony XDR is a terrific MW DX machine. I have the boombox version. Awesome on MW, even with a 3 ft simple loop of wire.

it's vastly underrated. I had to look intently to find just how good it is on MW.

it's selectivity might need improvement though

 

[abcfox]

Maybe try a loop on ground antenna, to see it it lowers your noise floor.

I thought I tried that in 2019. I think I gave it up because I felt my fence was skewing the pattern. The fence is steel.

I notice moving the antenna as little as 15 feet can make a difference in reception. I picked up WCHS in Charleston despite terrible ground conductivity around solar noon