Is there such a thing as a usable DMR generic codeplug?

[paulears]

I know there are some huge databases out there with all the repeaters in them with the names and callsigns of licensed people, but has anyone ever had one that worked, without making the radio so confusing to use?

A prospective customer asked me for one today - the inference being that if I could sell them a radio that didn't need programming as it was preloaded with everything, they'd buy it. All the ones I've tried still need the user to use the software to put the local digital repeaters and local users into new contact lists and groups, plus they need the old analogue channels to be entered and put into useful easy to get to locations.

This customer seemed to think this is a thing I should be doing, but of course, how would I test the radio worked and the data was accurate? Am I mistaken, and code plugs are out there for popular DMR radios that can do exactly this?

 

[hill]

Yes, I don't see any radio being able to be preloaded with a codeplug that would work in the local area. His best option is buy a radio that is popular like the Anytone 878 and getting assistance from a local ham to help with the programming.

It best to learn to program your own radios, since stuff is always changing. Like new repeaters or some updated talkgroups. Plus everyone has their own ideas of how to set radios with channels, Zones and etc.

Some minor modifications can be made from the keypads on the radios. I always do this if out and about with some error in the programming. Like the wrong slot.

I have many different DMR radios and learning to program them isn't too difficult.

Just need to learn DMR basics. Like color codes slots and talkgroups. After that is not much different than an analog radio

 

[n5ims]

There's always the RFinder radios that combine a DMR radio with an Android cell phone (some are data only) that will use the built in GPS to program the radio part for the closest DMR repeater and your selected talkgroup. They're not cheap (far from being CCR cheap!!!) but the few in our club that have them like them but don't use them as their go-to radio (mostly due to the cost). RFinder Android Radio

 

[jaspence]

I have an RFinder radio. The software does find local repeaters, but some info does still have to be input. Cost is well beyond easy to use, and when the version of Android is no longer supported I think will become a $$$$ paperweight.

The cheapest best solution I have is a CS 580 Connect Systems It has a search function that although much slower than an RF radio search lets you press a key when a frequency is found and add the channel to memory. The search range can be set in ham and commercial bands and lets you enter starting and ending frequencies. It can also be programmed with a USB cable and free software.

 

[paulears]

Thanks Guys - the buyer was quite short with me when I tried to put these points? In fact, my own experience with the big databases was that 99.9% of the content was pointless unless you are perpetually away from home, and worse, repeaters seem to add or remove talk groups regularly as they get busier. The user also then needs a level of radio menu navigating skill to put current locations into groups for access, as trying to find one repeater in huge lists, then move it to the active ones is hardly simple with up/down/select type operation.

I felt a bit bad essentially telling him this was not an area of the hobby where getting into programming is not really an option, but a necessity. One fella returned a radio because he couldn't program it. I said fine but if you just load in the simple codeplug I sent, you could just replace my repeater details with yours? He responded with "load it into what?" He didn't have a computer. I just refunded.

I changed the advert - This radio does need programming with a computer, but of course this then generates, can you do it for me responses. The snag I've always found is that if you program a remote repeater, you cannot test it - so while you put in the details you Google, often they eventually ask where group XXX is? You say what group XXX? to find it's been added locally but nobody changed the website. They then get cross when I ask them to at least cover the postage back. It's under warranty - being a common reply and it is faulty. I really wonder what sort of person expects so much from a radio that is really very cheap!

 

[w2xq]

If your customers are local/regional perhaps you can contact and identify amateur radio clubs that would be willing to program the radio and help the new DMR user and maybe gain a new member. Prepare a one page (2 sides) handout with all ARCs listed.

You might ensure the handout is up to date (annually).

As an aside, here I find DMR repeaters have a limited number of talkgroups. I don't bother with repeaters as I am out of range from those in the region. I just use a hotspot. Perhaps recommending a PiStar unit or OpenSpot (depending upon the customer's technical knowledge) might be a solution. Obviously this raises the package price to the buyer.

For my hotspots, this is how I organized my codeplug: W2XQ.com : Amateur Radio: DMR: Codeplug (I since have dropped all repeaters from my codeplug).

HTH.

 

[paulears]

I told the buyer exactly why I don't believe there is an download and use universal code plug for DMR (the radio was a Kydera 300) but he persisted, so with warning bells ringing I put all the cards on the table and explained the problems with DMR for new people and how part of the 'fun' was that programming them was a hobby in itself, and how you set up your radio to do what you need is quite unique in terms of scan groups, contacts and the memory layout. I also pointed out that in my van I run a much simplified cqodeplug because driving and using the radio at the same time can be dangerous. I then sent him some files of my own - with my own digital ID in so he could see what went in each box of a simple cqodeplug - which of course isn't really simple. Then he suddenly bought and paid for one, so I sent it out. He then asked me if I had the umpteen thousand callsign 'codeplug' - I told him that it wasn't a data file, but an add on with some software, but I did send it to him, with a warning that if he used it, it was at his own risk. I also sent him a firmware update but with dire warnings about the dangers of cqodeplug updating if you don't do them properly. Next day I got a return request from ebay - citing the equipment is defective and the text message the radio was totally beyond him and he'd never be able to work it in a month of Sundays. Using defective of course also means I pay the return postage. I'm afraid I told him exactly what I thought of him, and after all the effort I put into helping him and advising him that maybe DMR was not for him, he still brought it. I'm seriously thinking that I need to look at people's callsigns and if they are old meaning they must at least be as old as me, NOT sell them a radio. That's unfair on the people who are knowledgeable and technically up to date. Seriously - I am thinking that if in pre-sales questions anything screams newcomer, or worse, somebody with poorer education, or older and computer phobic, I'd rather not deal with them at all. I cannot put in the listings on ebay "PLEASE - if you are old, stupid, uneducated, technologically challenged or not up for some hard work - do NOT buy this radio, because you will hate it and be totally unable to make it work. If you find Microsoft word a challenge, this radio will be impossible. If you find understanding the information on a repeater website - forget DMR, and, if joining a forum, and asking people sensible questions as to how suitable a radio will be for you is too hard - please buy something analogue and unchallenging" This is probably ageist, educational-ist and social standing-ist but these people are driving me mad. One radio came back today with a poor display clarity complaint of defective workmanship - he'd not taken the screen protector off. I'm getting so sick of these idiots on ebay - all who have callsigns? I'm left feeling that the exam standards have wildly gone adrift. Are people no longer being tested on current technology, just 1980s analogue standards? Perhaps plugging a radio into a computer, reading it, editing data and sticking it back should be in the exam practicals - Here in the UK, we're still very snobby - an old A class Licence is still waved under people's noses as some kind of status symbol. The fella who sent back the DMR has one of these callsigns. Can't work a damn computer to save his life!

As you can tell - I'm furious!

 

[bharvey2]

When DMR first came across the ham radio radar, I was an early adopter. That was around 10 years ago, maybe a little less. That being said, I've experimented with and used a number of DMR radios. I've never run across a codeplug that would be considered generic or universal. There are far too many variables at play. Even if one were to stick to a particular radio brand and model, a codeplug in my area (California) would be useless in another area) say Washington, the UK, etc.

As far as DMR codeplugs go, once you understand the structure of how DMR works with regard to the data that you need to enter, They're easy enough to put together albeit a bit tedious if they get too big. You're providing your customer with accurate information. It seems like the customer is a bit too stubborn to accept it.

 

[AI7PM]

Too many want into DMR, but don't want to learn DMR. I usually answer a request for a codeplug with, "I'll teach you how to make a codeplug."

 

[paulears]

Totally agree - but nowadays people expect to be able to just buy a radio, and have it work. It does make me question the often promoted topic that DMR isn't ham radio - when clearly the level of user expertise, research ability and practicality is substantially higher than many can achieve. Maybe DMR is like the old Morse requirement - it didn't make you better, but simply showed you had put a bit of effort into gaining it. I'm just wondering how you sell DMR without insulting the ones who understand, and patronising them - and warning the thick and clueless that maybe this product is too hard for them? I don't want to scare people away, but the returns on DMR are totally unacceptable - people just being unwilling to spend any time on it and demanding instant on-air. Most that come back where I sent them my own code plug still have MY ID and MY local repeater in them. I had one back from a Greek guy living in the uk who had entered, from the net, the access details for the repeater ........ IN GREECE!!!! He said the unit was faulty as he'd entered the details correctly. he had, but it is a two hour flight to take the radio to where it would work perfectly.

 

[kb9mwr]

Totally agree - but nowadays people expect to be able to just buy a radio, and have it work.

That what the end consumer market is for. That is NOT ham radio. Those people need to be directed to go to a two-way shop and rent/buy a radio or use a cell phone. Ham radio implies learning something. If thats not your cup of tea, you were directed to the wrong hobby.

 

[paulears]

I think Ham Radio now is exactly this - the old experimentation and innovation has gone - you go out and buy a Baofeng and use the repeaters and that is the hobby for so many!

 

[dazey77]

Some of the UK suppliers supply ham radios with a code plug with all the regional repeaters, talk groups etc. Just need to add your ID to get it working. I preprogrammed one I sold on eBay with the same (porting it from an anytone to an alinco). Was a well done configuration, useful as a base and that one adds to. The company used it as a differentiator in selling radios (at least at the time).
They now seem to offer it free to anyone (Moonraker is the company)
Wouldn’t be a useful plug outside of Uk of course.

 

[dazey77]

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While the content wouldn’t be relevant the way they structures it might be of interest

 

[paulears]

That's the rub though - the codeplug with every repeater in it is hopeless for a newbie without programming skills. You have the data in the radio, but you have to find it - so hopefully, the actual frequency, colour code and slot data for the local repeater is fine (but of course untested) but some sections may have limits (either software based or practical user limits) on what repeaters can be in the different zones - so an unskilled user won't just be able to turn a knob or push up/down buttons to go through hundreds of repeaters - which might be programmed as channels within groups - so you select a repeater then you select which talk group, or maybe the local repeater's 7 or 8 talk groups are actually programmed in as 7 or 8 channels. Just entering these into scan lists, and perhaps deleting all the repeaters out of your own area is really complicated. If you understand groups, lists, zones, colour codes, slots and talk groups, a full comprehensive massive database can be useful, but new users struggle getting a Digital ID, let alone putting it in the right box. I got one back 'faulty' that had a digital ID in the model identification box, and the real ID box still had 12345678 programmed in.

I thought that giving people simplified code plugs would be safer, but many simply were unable to understand any of it. It's not helped by the fact that you must also enter information into other sections, then in other sections move that information across to enable its use. This is clearly way above the understanding of many people. One manufacturer often sends me emails they have received asking me if I can explain to them what the customer is trying to do, and some requests are simply proof that the user is frankly totally thick in all things digital. I spent ages trying to explain how to get a hotspot up and running. The seller of the hotspot refunded and so did I. The hotspot seller did worse than me "Incomprehensible menus, terrible product, badly designed" was his feedback.