Is this a common misconception about on air ID requirements?

[n9mxq]

<smart alek mode>

If the guy had been using a real radio, instead of just a receiver, I'd take him more seriously.

</smart alek mode>

And to n4yek's second point above... Guilty as charged.. I've forced myself into the habit of making sure to give my call phonetically when talking to someone I've never worked before.

 

[gewecke]

You'll hear my call once every 10 minutes, nuff said.

73,
n9zas

 

[rescue161]

There were several older hams on one of the repeaters here that were telling a new ham that it was a requirement to ID at the beginning, every ten minutes and at the end. They all agreed to do so when a ham from Texas (5 call) came on and told them that they did not have to ID at the beginning. That got them all bent out of shape, so I found the rules and pointed all of them to the section quoted earlier. The older hams said that they were still going to do it at the beginning because they always have done so. I don't see a problem in doing it, but don't spread untruths to new hams. Give new hams the RIGHT info.

We have a guy here that gets bent out of shape when people say, "for ID." Some people say it on purpose just to get a rise out of him.

As far as starting a conversation without using your call sign, our club is a tight-knit club where everyone's voice is recognizable. So, it is very easy when a local ham comes on and says, "KE4FHH, mobile" for another local ham to come on and say, "Hey Scott, what's been going on today?" Being the local that he is, I'll probably recognize his or her voice. Then we'll both ID at the ten minute mark or before that if the conversation ends. So that is how you would start talking without IDing.

 

[WB4CS]

I don't know how you start a 'communication' without using callsigns.

Do you just say "Calling Bob, this is Fred" and hope there aren't too many "Bobs" listening.

Umm..... How do you start or join a conversation face to face? Say two of your friends are talking at work and you walk up to them. Do you say "I'm Bob. What a great football game that was Sunday!" No. At least I hope not. You just start talking.

In other words, I hear two people on a repeater chit-chatting away and I want to join in, I just key up and add my input. I'll ID when it comes back around to me (within those 10 minutes.) Now, I won't always do this if I don't know the other people, I will generally say my call sign first and wait to be acknowledged. But for people I talk to often I just jump right on in.

 

[jk77]

For VHF/UHF, I think a lot of this depends on the local ham culture, i.e. you do what you see (or hear) others doing. I do think that a lot of hams overdo it so much so that their call sign becomes like a word parasite. I think it's best to adhere to the 10 minute rule and, as others have said, be as clear and distinct as possible.

 

[K5MPH]

We got one ham where I live and every time he id's he says for caller id what a nut head...........

 

[MTS2000des]

The rules are pretty clear to me and haven't changed in the close to 30 years I've been licensed.

No requirement to ID everyone in round table, or say "FOR ID" when giving a call sign. Every 10 minutes, or at the end of a series of transmissions.

One thing I have noticed after almost 3 decades of ham radio:

1)-Following instructions seems to be something many have a natural aversion to.

2)-Asking a group of hams a simple question will result in answers that will give you a migraine headache.

 

[k6cpo]

I don't know how you start a 'communication' without using callsigns.

Do you just say "Calling Bob, this is Fred" and hope there aren't too many "Bobs" listening.

Why do you think it's a "CALL" sign?

 

[Jimru]

2)-Asking a group of hams a simple question will result in answers that will give you a migraine headache.

Hah! Ask five hams about proper station grounding and get five different opinions!

 

[PrimeNumber]

Hah! Ask five hams about proper station grounding and get five different opinions!

More usually six! And then one of them will start arguing that even *that* is a poor approximation to 2*pi.

 

[kj3n]

2)-Asking a group of hams a simple question will result in answers that will give you a migraine headache.

Hah! Ask five hams about proper station grounding and get five different opinions!

Only 5? I'm thinking somewhere around 15.

 

[AK9R]

Folks, the thread is about IDing requirements, not grounding. Please stay on topic.

 

[Token]

The rules are pretty clear to me and haven't changed in the close to 30 years I've been licensed.

Identification rules have changed in various ways since I was first licensed, for example in about 1977 the requirement to identify as mobile or portable went away. About the same time (may have been the same set of rule changes, I forget) the requirement to include your actual area was removed, so a 2 station in 6 land did not have to identify as /6. A rule change I have NEVER liked.

I would have to go back to my original 60’s study guides to find more changes, but there have been some. None related to the time between IDs that I can remember

No requirement to ID everyone in round table, or say "FOR ID" when giving a call sign. Every 10 minutes, or at the end of a series of transmissions.

“No requirement” does not mean not a good idea or not done as a regular practice. Also, it does not mean “wrong” if done.

The “for ID” thing is something that I thought I understood (but not a habit I have myself), but possibly my take on it is wrong. Of course there is no requirement to say this, and it does tick some folks off, although why I am not sure as it does not hurt anything. I always understood this to be used so other stations know you are NOT signing clear, but just IDing, and also to serve as a reminder to others that it was time to ID.

While I don’t see the need in regular two sided conversations to ID every cycle, I can see the value in a large’ish round table. If there are 5 or 6 people in a round table and each takes a couple of minutes to talk (common with some groups) it might be 10 or 12 minutes before it gets back to you. Typically in such a large group I throw at least my own call at the end of a transmission, and often I throw the call of the person I expect to pick it up. Occasionally throwing everyone’s call can help people listening or thinking about jumping in. Otherwise they have to wait for one complete round table cycle before they hear who is involved in the conversation.

I adjust my own habits to the situation. If I know or suspect it is going to be some time before it gets around to me I ID at the end of a transmission. If the group I am with is shorter winded I don’t.

One thing I have noticed after almost 3 decades of ham radio:

1)-Following instructions seems to be something many have a natural aversion to.

The instructions, in this case, are a set of minimum requirements. Exceeding those minimums is not contrary to instructions, and can, in fact, sometimes be beneficial.

However, my original question was is this a common misconception that you must ID at beginning and end of each transmission, and of course anyone who thought such was required would have an issue understanding instructions.

The responses I have seen so far seem to indicate to me that it is common with very new hams or hams that were never Elmered.

2)-Asking a group of hams a simple question will result in answers that will give you a migraine headache.

This is not limited to hams, but I can see the issue.

T!

 

[QDP2012]

Sec. 97.119 Station identification.
(a) Each amateur station, except a space station or telecommand station, must transmit its assigned call sign on its transmitting channel at the end of each communication, and at least every 10 minutes during a communication, for the purpose of clearly making the source of the transmissions from the station known to those receiving the transmissions.

...However, my original question was is this a common misconception that you must ID at beginning and end of each transmission, and of course anyone who thought such was required would have an issue understanding instructions....

Even in the 1990's, after passing test(s), our VE's advice on this "regulation vs practice" question, was basically this --- that since the law was not clear on the definition of "each communication", some older hams would likely try to teach us a more conservative practice of ID'ing "first-last-and-every-10-minutes-in-between" for each squeeze of the mic, and recommended that we simply know the law, not be unnecessarily confrontational with those who ID excessively, and simply develop our own habits within the law, whether we understood "each communication" to mean "each transmission" or "each conversation".

 

[W2IBC]

only LID kids add "for ID" after the call sign.

 

[profiledescent]

only LID kids add "for ID" after the call sign.

Yup. Too many words to say nothing. If I hear someone give their call, I know it was to ID. It may have been to see if anyone would answer, but it was still ID. It's context may have been "goodbye", but it was still ID.

 

[KB7MIB]

I don't know how you start a 'communication' without using callsigns.

Do you just say "Calling Bob, this is Fred" and hope there aren't too many "Bobs" listening.

If the channel is silent, then announcing callsigns is typical. However, if Bob is already talking to Sam, then Fred doesn't need to ID when he joins the conversation, just every 10 minutes, and when he leaves the conversation.

John
Peoria, AZ