Yaesu: Is Yaesu producing defective FTM300D radios?

[tittiger]

I picked up a brand new Yaesu FTM 300D about 2 months ago, and from day one it wasn't putting out proper power I was getting about 40 Watts on 146.520.



This is even on a dummy load and every other radio that I own that is advertised as a 50-watt radio puts out at least 60 watts on this particular frequency.



I sent it back to associated radio and belatingly paid postage and insurance to return what was a defective radio that was sent to me. When it was returned to me it had the same problem it was low power, and any other radio I put to the test put out over the advertised 50 Watts usually at least 60 watts.



Getting a little fed up I demanded that Yaesu pay for the postage to send it back to them they kept it for about three freaking weeks and never contacted me about anything, sent it back to me and it took me three days to get the courage to power the thing up because I sort of knew what they were trying to pull. Sure enough when I powered up the radio I've got only 44 Watts on 146520.



I am unsure of what to do, but considering the way I have been treated I'm considering going to the bank and disputing the entire charge on grounds of fraud I was sold a 50-watt radio and every 50 watt radio I've ever bought in my life puts out more than 50 Watts and this one doesn't and they're silent they're not saying a thing as if they know there's a problem but let's pretend there's not and it will go away.



Does anyone have any ideas as to what's wrong? And I'd like to ask you what you would do if you were in the situation? Would you go to the bank and dispute the charges after jumping through every hoop imaginable trying to get the problem rectified and then having them not fix the problem?



For the record Yaesu is very deceptive as this radio is not made in Japan it is now made in China and I think that's probably the Crux of the problem.



Thank you for your time and answers.

 

[G7RUX]

No, they are not producing defective radios but you seem to have one which is a bit off.
Have you tried other frequencies?
That the unit is made in China rather than Japan is not a reason why the issue may have occurred since Yaesu's QC is perfectly adequate and I'm not sure why you believe that Yaesu are being deceptive.

 

[K4EET]

Hi @tittiger,

What wattmeter, coax (type and length), and dummy load are you using to test the RF power out on the Yaesu FTM-300DR?

What is the RF power out on 2 meters at 146.000 MHz and 70 centimeters at 435.000 MHz? Also check the band edges. That will be 6 measurements for us. Thanks!

We need to know your exact setup with model numbers and cable length from radio to dummy load and mid-band/band-edges power levels so we can calculate exactly what you should be seeing as a sanity check. Even the wattmeter may be good only to 30 MHz. We don’t know without knowledge of your setup particulars.

73, Dave K4EET

 

[KD9KSO]

There were two versions of this radio. One made in Japan, and the other in China. eHam reviews are not exactly glowing about this radio. The reviews with trouble do not specify which model they have, and may not even be aware that there are two versions. There was only one review about reduced power output.

I would return the radio for a refund, and if they balk, I would go to the bank or credit card company and dispute the charge for selling equipment that is not up to specification.

 

[AB5ID]

Does the radio work okay otherwise?

 

[N4KVE]

Seriously, you’re worried over 6 watts? What‘ll that get you, an additional 200 yards of range? I know when I’m on low power, [25 watts] & the guy on the other end is telling me I’m choppy, & I go to 45 watts, I’m good for another 1/2 mile. Are you using a Bird wattmeter?

 

[AB5ID]

What wattmeter readings are you getting on the 25 and 5 watt settings?

 

[GlobalNorth]

The radio is < $400 retail, so any legal action would be in small claims or a justice court setting. You would have to hire an expert witness in Electrical Engineering, Communications Engineering, etc. to analyze what is specifically wrong with the radio, issue a report as to the findings, and have them appear in court - none of which is cheap. Add in the filing fees, costs to serve the subpoena, and associated fees. The total costs before setting foot in the courtroom is going to easily exceed the initial cost of the radio.

You could ask Yaesu or the retailer to exchange the radio for another radio of like type, but I suspect that isn't an option. Chargeback, assuming you purchased it with a credit card is possible, if you followed all the procedures and are within the timeline Filing anything with the BBB is a waste of your time, as it is an organization with no investigative/regulatory abilities. The State AG? They are looking for consumer fraud on a market wide scale, not a possibly defective radio with no evidence of criminal intent.

The radio does not satisfy your needs. I would either return it to the retailer or sell/trade it outright to someone who wants it.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I have never trusted any wattmeter, Even a Bird has gross error. There are power meters with greater accuracy but it is basically lab grade stuff with required attenuation, all of which need calibration. Then there are the jumpers and load. If the jumpers have adapters or are too long will affect accuracy. The load must be entirely resistive. What equipment do you have, send pictures. Also your power supply might be a bit low in voltage.

 

[10-43]

Seriously, you’re worried over 6 watts? What‘ll that get you, an additional 200 yards of range? I know when I’m on low power, [25 watts] & the guy on the other end is telling me I’m choppy, & I go to 45 watts, I’m good for another 1/2 mile. Are you using a Bird wattmeter?

Agree. When I first got my Yaesu FT-857D years ago, at first I thought output power on 70cm was way below the 20 watt rating. After studying my setup I discovered it was my setup and not the radio. It bugged me a while until I figured it out.

Generally, with an omnidirectional antenna you have to have 10x power to double the distance assuming no appreciable interference from obstacles in the pathway. Which supports your experience.

I'm also amused when people chase down very low SWR readings thinking it's going to give them greater range. If a transmitter will not fold back power at 2:1, that is only an 11% reduction in forward power. Very insignificant. 3:1 is 25% less but the transmitter will likely fold back power to some lower level.

One needs to be much more concerned with antenna efficiency and feed line losses.

 

[10-43]

Power supply could definately be an issue. If the radio is rated for 13.8 volts it needs to be at least that with sufficient current. What is the power supply voltage reading when you are measuring the output power? Also you will lose power supply current if your power supply wiring to the radio is undersized for the length.

Transmitter power measurements can be very tricky. I have experienced many weird annomalys. If you are not reading what you expect, you need to review your test setup carefully.

Check voltage at the power supply and and the radio when transmitting. Ideally they should be the same. The power output is probably rated for a supply voltage of 13.8 volts with sufficient rated current requirement. If the supply voltage at the radio drops below 13.8 volts the transmit power out will drop.

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I have wasted hours on bad coax jumpers and adapters. The fewer the better.

 

[Chronic]

6 watts will not even be noticed on the other end

 

[10-43]

Before I went into the US Air Force and really learned radio electronics, I was living at home during the 70's CB craze. There wasn't much HAM radio around me back then. In fact I didn't really know anything about it until meeting a few HAMs in the Air Force. In the 70's I recall me and others tuning their radios to get 5 or 6 watts instead of 4. Many years later, and 3 electronics career fields in the US Air Force (Ground Radio, Wideband/Satellite, Air Field Systems maintenance), now I have to laugh at myself. We chased down the elusive 1:1 SWR back then as well. Also, if I had known about inverted V antennas back then, skip would have worked so much better than with the common ground plane antenna. Oh, and the co-phased antennas on truck mirrors. Not nearly enough separation for antenna diversity to work. But it looked cool!

 

[rf_patriot200]

I picked up a brand new Yaesu FTM 300D about 2 months ago, and from day one it wasn't putting out proper power I was getting about 40 Watts on 146.520.



This is even on a dummy load and every other radio that I own that is advertised as a 50-watt radio puts out at least 60 watts on this particular frequency.



I sent it back to associated radio and belatingly paid postage and insurance to return what was a defective radio that was sent to me. When it was returned to me it had the same problem it was low power, and any other radio I put to the test put out over the advertised 50 Watts usually at least 60 watts.



Getting a little fed up I demanded that Yaesu pay for the postage to send it back to them they kept it for about three freaking weeks and never contacted me about anything, sent it back to me and it took me three days to get the courage to power the thing up because I sort of knew what they were trying to pull. Sure enough when I powered up the radio I've got only 44 Watts on 146520.



I am unsure of what to do, but considering the way I have been treated I'm considering going to the bank and disputing the entire charge on grounds of fraud I was sold a 50-watt radio and every 50 watt radio I've ever bought in my life puts out more than 50 Watts and this one doesn't and they're silent they're not saying a thing as if they know there's a problem but let's pretend there's not and it will go away.



Does anyone have any ideas as to what's wrong? And I'd like to ask you what you would do if you were in the situation? Would you go to the bank and dispute the charges after jumping through every hoop imaginable trying to get the problem rectified and then having them not fix the problem?



For the record Yaesu is very deceptive as this radio is not made in Japan it is now made in China and I think that's probably the Crux of the problem.



Thank you for your time and answers.

The difference between 40 or 50 watts is minimal. I wouldn't get hung up over it.

 

[robertwbob]

i must say this,but 3 year warrenty too. if its not putting out full power makes me think it might have other wrongs in it.yes 6 watts not much but it should be closer to 50 watts. i wont give my opinion of yaesu warrenty work but will say forget that unless it burns up.
if you can find it a hidden menu probably has way to up the power but most get in the menu n think heck lets max er out.

 

[AK9R]

We need to know the following:

1. What power supply did you use to power the radio? What were the connections between the power supply and the radio? Were all of the connections, including the fuse holder, if any, clean and tight?

2. What was the supply voltage measured at the radio when transmitting?

3. Was the radio connected through a calibrated watt meter to a dummy load using short coax jumpers?

You say that Associated Radio sent the radio back to you. Did they tell you what they found?

You asked if we had any ideas as to what's wrong. That's difficult for us to say as we don't know what test equipment you are using or your testing conditions. What I can assume is happening is that your radio isn't getting the 13.8 volts as specified in the owner's manual. It's also possible that your wattmeter is not accurate. You say that you measured 44 watts. That's 88% of rated power. I assume that Yaesu's power output specs are +/- 10%, so your radio at 44 watts is not that far outside what may be Yaesu's specs.

You asked what we would do. I would check the radio using my Astron SS-30 power supply and HP 8920B service monitor. Until I fully understood what was happening, I would not go on social media making broad claims about a "defective radio" or demands that you made of the manufacturer/importer to pay for shipping or threats to dispute charges over what you believe to be "fraud" or claims that Yaesu is being "deceptive" about the country of origin. Some of these statements that you've made could be used against you in a court of law.

FWIW, I just checked my FTM-300DR. On initial key-up, my HP 8920B measured a power output of 50.1 watts on 146.520 MHz. As I held the key down for 60 seconds, the power output dropped to 49.9 watts. Once again, assuming that Yaesu's power output specs are +/- 10%, I would say that my radio is within specification.

Also, the box my FTM-300DR came in says "Made in China". The serial number tag on my radio says "Made in China". I detect no deceptive practices on the part of Yaesu.

As alluded to above, many electronics products are made in China. What makes the difference is the quality of the design, the quality of the components specified, and the quality control practices employed. iPhones are made in China and I have never heard anyone complain about the hardware build quality of iPhones.

 

[KK4JUG]

Virtually all electronics are made in Asia now. China, Japan, Viet Nam, Malaysia, etc., all make quality electronics. They also make some junk. Yaesu vs. Beofeng. Caveat Emptor.

For the record, I try to buy "as local as possible," i.e., neighborhood hardware store, locally owned coffee shop, etc. I want a U.S.-made TV. Wait!! There hasn't been a TV manufactured in this country in several decades. That applies to radios, audio and video recorders, toys, cell phones, smart watches, amplifiers, microphones..... You get the idea. There's nothing deceptive about building a radio in China.

 

[10-43]

Virtually all electronics are made in Asia now. China, Japan, Viet Nam, Malaysia, etc., all make quality electronics. They also make some junk. Yaesu vs. Beofeng. Caveat Emptor.

For the record, I try to buy "as local as possible," i.e., neighborhood hardware store, locally owned coffee shop, etc. I want a U.S.-made TV. Wait!! There hasn't been a TV manufactured in this country in several decades. That applies to radios, audio and video recorders, toys, cell phones, smart watches, amplifiers, microphones..... You get the idea. There's nothing deceptive about building a radio in China.

Yep.

Designed in California, assembled in China. I suppose that's supposed to make you feel better, but they don't tell you the parts weren't made in the US either.

 

[N4KVE]

Yep.

Designed in California, assembled in China. I suppose that's supposed to make you feel better, but they don't tell you the parts weren't made in the US either.

People choose to get items made in China because of cheap labor costs. They can make garbage there, or good quality there. Depends on what the owner asks for. Think about all the cellphones made there. But I’d rather buy a Yaesu designed in Japan, and made in China vs a Baoturd designed, & made in China.