ISP Dist 52 on Greenwood Tower

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delallen

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I live in Greenwood.

I cannot receive ISP dist 52 (tg 4192) off the Greenwood Tower.

Does anyone else have this problem?

I've tried the Indianapolis towers, but I'm too far away with my directional 800mhz antenna pointed southwest.

I swore that I use to pick them up.

Any Ideas?
 

SCANMUNCIE

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Location
Delaware Co, Indiana
You will only recieve them off the greenwood tower, if one of the radios that is on the ISP 52 channel is attached to the Greenwood Tower.. Otherwise the Greenwood Tower will not transmit the radio traffic..

So in a nut shell, if a trooper is in the area of the Greenwood, and attached to that Tower you will here ISP 52, otherwise you will not hear them.
 

DiGiTaLD

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Messages
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ISP-52-DISP on Greenwood Site

JFish said:
You will only recieve them off the greenwood tower, if one of the radios that is on the ISP 52 channel is attached to the Greenwood Tower.. Otherwise the Greenwood Tower will not transmit the radio traffic..
While this is true, Del has a point. ISP-52-DISP is seemingly never on the Greenwood site anymore, but it used to be all the time in the site's earlier days. Same is true with DNR-LESR (DNR South Region law enforcement dispatch).

I have been monitoring Greenwood (Site 15) with Unitrunker almost non-stop since last September (2007), and I have recorded only 33 hits for ISP-52-DISP since that time. Yet, in the same time period, I have recorded 312,686 hits for 41JCS-DSP (Johnson County Sheriff dispatch), and 180,078 hits for 32-HCP-DISP (Hendricks County dispatch), which logic would tell you shouldn't even have radios affiliating with Greenwood all that often, since Hendricks county has two sites running in simulcast (Site 29), as well as Mooresville (09) close by that should handle all of their traffic and have a lot higher RSSI on the subscriber radios than Greenwood would.

I think there's more to it than simply radios not affiliating to the site for a specific talkgroup. I think there are restrictions in place on the system to keep certain radio IDs from affiliating to certain talkgroups on certain sites. Why? Probably resource management. Its possible that a high traffic talkgroup such as ISP-52-DISP isn't allowed on Greenwood, and subscriber radios aren't allowed to affiliate with that talkgroup on the site to preserve system resources (i.e. voice channels) for more local users who have nothing more than portable radios and are a lot closer to the site, thus needing it more than a trooper who may be ten or fifteen miles out with a higher-powered mobile radio.

I'd have to do more actual logging with Unitrunker, then checking confirmed IDs of radios often used on the talkgroups mentioned above (ISP-52-DISP, DNR-LESR) to document those radio IDs being waved off by the zone controller when trying to affiliate to those talkgroups on the site, but I have seen in Unitrunker logs where a radio has been waved off because of radio ID. I would bet that this is what happening with ISP-52-DISP on Greenwood, as well as DNR-LESR.
 

SCANMUNCIE

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Location
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DiGiTaLD,

A lot of what you say does make sense, but I know from use of my radio that affiliates with Greenwood site it will carry ISP-52 traffic ..

I have noticed that the Franklin site seem to be much stronger as once I get around Stop 18 the radio goes for Franklin site instead of the Greenwood site.

The reason you are getting alot of hits for 32-HCP-DISP on the Greenwood site is I have a friends who live off county line road who works in Henricks County and they monitor that talkgroup on a regular basis..
 

delallen

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Location
Greenwood, IN
DIGITaD - You answered more questions that I had.. What happened to DNR and why the Hendricks Co. traffic.
Jfish, that makes sense about a deputy living in the area.
I have found that you can get DNR South off of the Franklin Tower.
Thanks for the education Guys!!!!
 

K9JGB

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Location
Johnson County, Indiana
delallen said:
DIGITaD - You answered more questions that I had.. What happened to DNR and why the Hendricks Co. traffic.
Jfish, that makes sense about a deputy living in the area.
I have found that you can get DNR South off of the Franklin Tower.
Thanks for the education Guys!!!!
Franklin and Edinburgh. Probably because they are in the Atterbury area.
 

DiGiTaLD

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Messages
692
"Waving Off"

JFish said:
A lot of what you say does make sense, but I know from use of my radio that affiliates with Greenwood site it will carry ISP-52 traffic
The radio will affiliate with Greenwood, but is it getting the ISP-52-DISP traffic on Greenwood or is it being waved to another site when receiving traffic on that talkgroup?

The reason I ask is this. I tried the experiment today I mentioned in my post above; looking for confirmed radio IDs affiliating with Greenwood that I know from listening and logging are in use on ISP-52-DISP (i.e. radios that are used by 52-XX units). How do you figure that out? Easy. Just run Unitrunker, and when somebody keys up on any given talkgroup, listen to the unit number, look at the radio ID being displayed on the screen, and then append the user's unit number in the label for that radio ID.

This experiment wasn't real hard to do. I just let Unitrunker run a log on Greenwood all day long. 55 megabytes for just under 10 hours of log - that's a lot of text! I then used Wordpad's find function to look for the confirmed radio IDs in the log file. I found four confirmed radio IDs being waved off by the Greenwood site when trying to affiliate. I don't believe there's a way to tell what group those radios were trying to affiliate with when they were waved off by the site (meaning I don't think it shows up in the outbound control channel data), but you could probably correlate times with logs from other sites made during the same time frame showing those radios making successful affiliations on the talkgroup on those sites but being waved off by Greenwood.

In the control channel data stream, the system is constantly sending out information for the subscriber radios to use in locating the control channel of adjacent sites to the site they are currently listening to. Radios roam from site to site all the time, and if a talkgroup isn't permitted on a given site, the radio should move to the next adjacent site with the highest RSSI on the radio to get traffic on that talkgroup.

Perhaps even more significant than the radios being waved off is that in just under 10 hours of log, I did not find one single channel grant for ISP-52-DISP, which would show up in the log as "1060 G" followed by voice channel and radio ID information. Logic would tell you that for a site that's pretty much centrally located in District 52, you'd have at least a few radios affiliate with the talkgroup on that site, and have at least a few channel grants in a ten-hour period. Not so. I am really thinking the talkgroup is, for whatever reason, not permitted on that site.

Here are the excerpts from the log:

2008-05-15 07:48:20 43 of 43 (100%)
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
FFFF G 36E Site 15
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
19F2 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 19F2 waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3BF Network Status
19F2 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 19F2 waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
19F2 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 19F2 waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
19F2 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 19F2 waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
019C G 320
62A2 G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<01>, uses DChan=2A2 867.8625, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
4300 I 3BF Network Status
2008-05-15 07:48:21 43 of 43 (100%)


2008-05-15 13:52:46 43 of 43 (100%)
4300 I 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
019C G 320
62A2 G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<01>, uses DChan=2A2 867.8625, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
4300 I 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
399C G 320
63D4 I 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<15>, Alt DChan=3D4 867.9000, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
27C8 I 36E Site 15 Alias GREENW
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
CCB3 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio CCB3 waved off because of Radio ID
CCB3 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio CCB3 waved off because of Radio ID
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
CCB3 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio CCB3 waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
1FBE G 321
1F40 G 2F3 Channel Grant Astro 2F3 I 1FBE -> G 1F40
1FBE G 321
1F40 G 2F3 Channel Grant Astro 2F3 I 1FBE -> G 1F40
2008-05-15 13:52:47 43 of 43 (100%)

2008-05-15 10:37:29 43 of 43 (100%)
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
719C G 320
62CB G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<29>, uses DChan=2CB 868.8875, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
4300 I 3BF Network Status
0380 G 2E3 Continuation 2E3 G 0380
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
1B0A I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 1B0A waved off because of Radio ID
1B0A I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 1B0A waved off because of Radio ID
1B0A I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 1B0A waved off because of Radio ID
1B0A I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 1B0A waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
2D9C G 320
6171 G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<12>, uses DChan=171 860.2375, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
4300 I 3BF Network Status
0380 G 2E3 Continuation 2E3 G 0380
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6594 I 36E Site 15 Alias GREENW
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
2008-05-15 10:37:30 43 of 43 (100%)

2008-05-15 08:55:38 43 of 43 (100%)
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
2D9C G 320
6171 G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<12>, uses DChan=171 860.2375, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
8F14 I 308
261C I 30B Deaffiliation 8F14
1AA7 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 1AA7 waved off because of Radio ID
8F14 I 308
261C I 30B Deaffiliation 8F14
1AA7 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 1AA7 waved off because of Radio ID
8F14 I 308
261C I 30B Deaffiliation 8F14
1AA7 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 1AA7 waved off because of Radio ID
8F14 I 308
261C I 30B Deaffiliation 8F14
1AA7 I 308
2C4A I 30B Radio 1AA7 waved off because of Radio ID
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
1EA0 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 1EA0
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
219C G 320
63EB G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<09>, uses DChan=3EB 868.4750, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
1EA0 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 1EA0
4300 I 3BF Network Status
7829 G 308
499C G 320
63BE G 30B NetInfo, Sys=7829, Cell=<19>, uses DChan=3BE 868.9750, Band=821, Wide, Astro, Analog
3040 G 3C0 System is Type II or IIi 800 Connect Tone=83.72 Hz
4AC0 G 3C0 Status[2] = 0ac0
6101 G 3BF Network Status
3040 G 3BF Network Status
1EA0 G 3C3 Continuation 3C3 G 1EA0
2008-05-15 08:55:39 43 of 43 (100%)
 

jerk

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Under Smartzone, Motorola has preferred Sites option, this will keep a radio on a particular site whether or not there is a closer or better site for the radio.
The four options are:
always preferred, preferred, no preference, least preferred.

Now could all Dist52 radios have this least preferred option programmed, don't know, but Johnson County (Greenwood) was the one who switched back to old radios way back when when they had problems. Maybe this is being done to keep that site from being overloaded, as it might have been installed to keep Greenwood happy.

Just my guess... but it gives a good explanation why you are not hearing D52 much at all.
 

OpSec

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Geez, DD...when did you turn into a trunking geek?

You should stick a scanner in the '89 and drill another hole ;)
 

SCANMUNCIE

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Messages
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Location
Delaware Co, Indiana
DiGiTaLD said:
The radio will affiliate with Greenwood, but is it getting the ISP-52-DISP traffic on Greenwood or is it being waved to another site when receiving traffic on that talkgroup?
After reading your post what you are saying I have to agree with. Today I did a little test after reading your post. I did see exactly what you was talking about.

The radio would affiliate with Greenwood site on ISP-52 DISPATCH .. When I was not hearing any traffic I hit the site view button and it showed it affiliated with Greenwood.

However as soon as I heard traffic I noticed the signal bars change on the radio and then I would hit the site view button and it would be on Site 1 (INDY) which is located at district 52. As soon as the traffic stopped I again hit the view site and it was back on Site 15 (Greenwood).

I did this several different times and it happened every time except some of the times it would show Site 19. then jump back to Site 15..

So I think what you say is actually happening.. The Greenwood site if having a radio affiliated on that talkgroup is waving it off to other surrounding sites during talkgroup activity and then the radio returns to the site with the highest RSSI..
 

delallen

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Messages
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Location
Greenwood, IN
DiGiTaLD said:
The radio will affiliate with Greenwood, but is it getting the ISP-52-DISP traffic on Greenwood or is it being waved to another site when receiving traffic on that talkgroup?

2008-05-15 08:55:39 43 of 43 (100%)
So if I were to sum this up. The Greenwood Tower has a door on the front of it with a sign that says "NO INDY TROOPS ALLOWED"

Would this be correct?
 

jerk

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delallen said:
So if I were to sum this up. The Greenwood Tower has a door on the front of it with a sign that says "NO INDY TROOPS ALLOWED"

Would this be correct?
Well, it is in the site controller, but yes...
They are allowed, just not preferred..
I'm sure if an emergency button was pressed that tower would work fine, but if I recall correctly, that tower is for Greenwood and Johnson County to solve some early on coverage problems.
 

K9JGB

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Messages
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Location
Johnson County, Indiana
newsalan said:
Well, it is in the site controller, but yes...
They are allowed, just not preferred..
I'm sure if an emergency button was pressed that tower would work fine, but if I recall correctly, that tower is for Greenwood and Johnson County to solve some early on coverage problems.
You are correct. That is the exact reason for that tower. GPD through a fit, and the powers at be made it right. The old head of communications for Johnson County is now a Field Coordinator for IPSC. He and a few others made sure coverage in Johnson County was at least 75% for portable coverage.
 
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