Ithaca/Tompkins County TRS

[boatman5987]

How will pagers be activated?

Pagers are, I think, still operating on a UHF frequency. Anyone correct me if I am wrong. Also, can anyone tell me why pagers are making G-D AWFUL noises now during voice transmission?

 

[bnchester]

So, you pay $10 million for a whiz-bang new system but you still need to hang onto a UHF frequency (anyway it's a VHF-Lo frequency now, isn't it?). That just doesn't seem right. If it's going to be something outside the P25 system and not the legacy VHF frequency, does anyone know what it will be?

 

[abbinam]

Have to hold onto UHF paging (460.something) due to the county fire departments using UHF minitors. The VHF paging frequency is being phased out, we had to switch over to all programmable minitor IV or Vs. I dont know why voices sound so terrible over paging. Still waiting for the throwing over of the switch... we've started using the OPS channels for all trainings and the mobiled and portables are installed in our rigs.
New question: We use knox key boxes that are wired through a minitor II in base stations on the trucks. When we need the key, we turn the minitors on, ask for the tones, and they send the tones over paging. The IIs arent programmable, thus cant be changed to the new paging frequency from the old one. You can't send analog tones over 800 MHz, as was mentioned above, meaning we either have to install new minitor Vs (programmed at the correct freq.) and their base stations in the trucks or find a better way. There HAS to be a better way, I know the rest of the civilized world doesnt not run this way. Rumor is there is a way to get a digital signal sent through the new system to open a knox box wired directly into the radio. Is this true? Is this something we can push for?

 

[DaveNF2G]

Yes, Knox boxes and other devices can be triggered via trunked systems. There are a variety of ways to do it.

 

[jlm5561]

Tompkins Paging

All fire and EMS paging tones are being sent out on UHF freq.460.275. As for hearing on

new 800 system remember by FCC rules there are to be no tones put out on this system. But you can hear all messages put out after the tones by inputing
talkgroup ID 55327 Fire Paging.

 

[boatman5987]

Knox systems

I had the same curiosity about knox systems. Have not remembered to ask local fire chief, but I do know some of their newer knox systems are activated (key released) by a number pad on the unit, and not tones. To me this has more than one advantage, especially since tones do not seem to come through very well sometimes. Maybe depts. will be going to these?

 

[jlm5561]

Paging is UHF 460.275 but if you input talkgroup ID 55327 on your tracker 800MHz.you will hear all the same information with out the tones . As FCC rules does not allow tones on the County wide 800 system.

 

[Thunderknight]

new 800 system remember by FCC rules there are to be no tones put out on this system.

47 CFR 90. reference?

 

[nozzlenut83]

I had the same curiosity about knox systems. Have not remembered to ask local fire chief, but I do know some of their newer knox systems are activated (key released) by a number pad on the unit, and not tones. To me this has more than one advantage, especially since tones do not seem to come through very well sometimes. Maybe depts. will be going to these?

We recently began using newer knox box key decoders in the Dutchess County area that have a key pad on them and are not connected to the radio system. The user simply enters a 4 digit PIN and the key is released. Each member has a unique PIN and the system tracks the release time and restore time to ensure accountablilty.

This is a huge advantage over the tones via radio decoders that we are slowly phasing out. Although you can try to tell from radio logs who requested the release of the key it is not always possible. Also radio issues (programming errors at both the 911 center and the apparatus, dead spots, etc.) often require the tones to be sent multiple times eating up air time (a huge issue for the county 911 center).

Disadvantages of this system are that the likelyhood of releasing the key with 4 random digits is very real and has been done.

 

[abbinam]

Thanks for all the info about the PINned knox boxes folks. Maybe thats the way to go.

 

[boatman5987]

-I am really curious about police encryption. Stugeman said due to media and public outcry, he doubted full time encryption would happen. Since when has that affected officials decisions? Anyone with new info on this, please post it here!

 

[snplw]

I would like to direct this question to member "abbinam". Recently, probably a year or so now when your units are dispatched, at the end of the call it is followed by something such as "this a 29 delta, 2 bravo, 3 charlie, or an alpha response". Would you tell me what does that mean, please? I thought I had it figured out then some of them didn't make sense. When you asked about the knox boxes, you seem to be the one to ask. Does this refer to the severity of the call? Or a map coordinate? Just wondering. Thanks.

 

[nozzlenut83]

If you are referingto EMS dispatches the Alpha, Bravo, CHarlie, Delta, Echo & Omega codes you are hearing are probably Emergency Medical Priority Dispatch codes.

The important part of the code is the letter part (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, Delta, Echo & Omega), Echo is the highest priority then Delta, Charlie, Bravo & Alpha. Omega responses are generally non-emergency calls such as public assist.

The codes referto the number of the Instruction card that the dispatcher uses to give pre-arrival instructions to 911 callers.

The codes list is attached.

Hope this helps,
nozzlenut83

 

[snplw]

Thank you, I shall see if that makes more sense when I hear the dispatches now. A quick scan over it and it is all EMS, I thought I heard it on all calls meaning fire also. But that could be just most calls get the fire put out with all EMS to even if just for manpower. Any idea why they went to this system? I am sure it makes sense, just not to someone in their scheme of things. Anyways thanks for the info.

 

[nozzlenut83]

In my experience, for fire dispatches the codes are used to tell the ambulances on the assignment what response level the call is. For most fire calls it will be an alpha or omega response unless there is reported injuries.

This type of system prioritizes dispatches. It does a lot of things that you don't necessarily hear on the radio. The pre-arrival instruction that are given to 911 callers are often responsible for keeping patients sustainable prior to ems arrival. Another big push with this type of system, wether Alpha, bravo, charlie, etc.. or Priority 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.. is the ability of the agency to determine the best mode and level of response. That meaning with lights and sirens or with normal traffic and sending ALS or BLS units. Traffic collisions are a huge risk for emergency responders and one way to reduce that risk is to reduce the number of resources responding to a call and to reduce the number of units in an emergency response mode (where studies have shown you are 300x more likely to be involved in an accident).

This type of system allows agencies to make more informed decisions about the risks they should take. It's not perfect, but it does help.

Hope this helps,
nozzlenut83

 

[abbinam]

Alpha - BLS, respond cold
Bravo - BLS, respond hot
Charlie - ALS, cold
Delta - ALS, hot
Echo - Prearrival CPR instructions being given, hot.
Omega - lowest priority... usually a lift assist, no injury.

The number before and after the letter are more specific descriptions of the call. If you have the EMD sheets, you can look up exactly what the call is. Rumor is in someplaces the second number also helps set the priority, but fire/ems units are only listening to the letter. The Ambo uses the rest of the code for billing/PCR purposes.

Sometimes the dispatch priority seems ridiculous ("possible strokes" and "chest pain with cardiac history" are Charlies), so some agencies can step it up in those cases. If you get in an accident, though, you better have a good reason.

So E, D, and B are the lights and sirens calls.

 

[boatman5987]

I hear TCSD came online Wed. I also heard they are 100% encrypted! Anyone know anything? Heard any transmissoins? The value of my BCD396T is going down!

 

[bnchester]

Sheriff is on TG 55351 -- I started hearing it Wednesday -- and they are in the clear.

 

[boatman5987]

Bnchester- You are my hero!

 

[bnchester]

Easy does it...