I believe the loss would probably be heat. There is some discussion of the modial interaction of magneto reluctance and capacitive duractance here
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It's really going up there!
- Thread starter MSR-Tillamook
- Start date
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
You need to look at the resistance. DC/60Hz AC won't have that much loss in a length of wire. As you go higher in frequency, it does. Coaxial cable losses go up as you go higher in frequency. 1000 feet of RG-58 is going to have a ton of loss at 27MHz, and many tons of loss if you start working up the bands. There's a really good reason why cell towers and public safety systems use some very large coaxial cables.
MSR-Tillamook
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Yeah got that part - move to a better place But let's work on the science; what offers the chocking resistance the comducting material or parasitic recepting wave in the jacket? Why hasn't anybody offered up the thought of 200 ft of exposed transmission wire? Or whatever .
MSR-Tillamook
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Okay, I just seen your post. Just saying the science before the let down
MSR-Tillamook
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Where dose the resistance build due to the freq rise? Standing electron volts?
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Resistance converts the energy to heat. Heat gets dissipated into free space and does you no good.
Read up on Skin Effect:
Skin effect - Wikipedia
You've only got so much space on the skin of the center conductor of RG-58. Not enough "skin" so it turns to heat and radiates off into the cosmos.
So Uniden and cobra make remote head CB radios, basically if you mounted the radio at the top of the mountain and extended the remote head the 1000 feet you would have full control...Now Im not sure if you can use cat 6 and some sort of ethernet amp of phone line like another guy said but it would solve your problem
at 20mhz its .159db @100'. At 30mhz its listed as .195 so I would think 2db of loss on 1000'...
I would use 450 ohm ladder line and a 9:1 transformer at each end. Calculated loss is about 1.5dB For 1,000ft. You would have to keep it off the ground with a wood post or PVC pipe sticking out of the ground every 50ft or so. Or there is that single wire transmission line thing that Coyote Frostbite mentioned not long ago.
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Hey MSR 
For what you are looking at, any coax cable is going to be a very (!) bad idea. I don't think I have to re-hash all the reasons.
I have a very similar situation where I am--- there is a granite escapment that shields my place from a valley I wish to launch a VHF signal into. It towers over my house several hundred feet and effects a perfect shield in that direction.
Until lately I had run a Goubau feed line up to the top and fed it to a beam antenna.
forums.radioreference.com
The ice we have at +9800 feet took it down this winter
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I would not suggest one of these in your case--- the design at 27 MHz is going to be too mechanically awkward.
But will suggest this:
Ok, take a seat---
You sound like a bloke whose up for a challenge-- at least enuff of a challenge to go string'ing feedlines up a mountain side. What you need to consider is the use of an open wire feedline-- suspend it from poles clearing the ground all the way up to the summit (it going to look like an old fashioned telephone line) -------I'd use, in your case, spaced line 6 inch line.... buy it or make it yourself. It will be a project (!), but you leave few other (reasonable) alternatives.
Years ago I knew a rancher in Wyoming with just a similar case as yours. A tall steep hill shadowed him from a (then) analog TV station. He did exactly this---ran a open wire line from his house, over 1500 feet, to a TV antenna. A kind'a snowy picture, but it worked well for what he wanted.
Good Luck Cowboy !
Lauri
.
For what you are looking at, any coax cable is going to be a very (!) bad idea. I don't think I have to re-hash all the reasons.
I have a very similar situation where I am--- there is a granite escapment that shields my place from a valley I wish to launch a VHF signal into. It towers over my house several hundred feet and effects a perfect shield in that direction.
Until lately I had run a Goubau feed line up to the top and fed it to a beam antenna.
A Goubau Line
. I have been meaning to write up this unusual topic for some time. Then a weather event this week brought it back in sharp focus with a snow storm and high winds. All night long this storm raged, and in the morning I was greeted by its twisted mass buried in a snow bank. Caught your...
The ice we have at +9800 feet took it down this winter
_______________________________________________________________________
I would not suggest one of these in your case--- the design at 27 MHz is going to be too mechanically awkward.
But will suggest this:
Ok, take a seat---
You sound like a bloke whose up for a challenge-- at least enuff of a challenge to go string'ing feedlines up a mountain side. What you need to consider is the use of an open wire feedline-- suspend it from poles clearing the ground all the way up to the summit (it going to look like an old fashioned telephone line) -------I'd use, in your case, spaced line 6 inch line.... buy it or make it yourself. It will be a project (!), but you leave few other (reasonable) alternatives.
Years ago I knew a rancher in Wyoming with just a similar case as yours. A tall steep hill shadowed him from a (then) analog TV station. He did exactly this---ran a open wire line from his house, over 1500 feet, to a TV antenna. A kind'a snowy picture, but it worked well for what he wanted.
Good Luck Cowboy !
Lauri
.
If I did that, a ‘she shed’ would be mandatory.
RFI-EMI-GUY
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1) The rules for CB radio appear to prohibit remote control of a station unless the control is "on premises". The rules also prohibit doing so by wireless. If you own the land to the top, arguably it is your premises. There are many ways to do so that use a wireline connection. I would suggest that a WIFI solution may not attract any scrutiny. But you will need power on top of the mountain to support the remote equipment,
2) I like the ladder line suggestion of PRCGUY at #30. Just be sure to use lightning protection at each end. Don't scrimp on the surge protectors or grounding system.
2) I like the ladder line suggestion of PRCGUY at #30. Just be sure to use lightning protection at each end. Don't scrimp on the surge protectors or grounding system.
One of my old antenna mentors was Don Wallace (W6AM) . His antenna site was 140+ acres of Rhombic antennas, all fed with ladder lines to the shack (all 19 of them)
Some of those runs were 1000 foot. Very low loss even at 50 Mhz.
50 ohm CB antenna, you could use 'prcguy's suggestion of a ladder line and baluns.
Cost would be about like RG-58.
Some of those runs were 1000 foot. Very low loss even at 50 Mhz.
50 ohm CB antenna, you could use 'prcguy's suggestion of a ladder line and baluns.
Cost would be about like RG-58.
west-pac
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You're wrong, all wrong. I would hope that someone would've corrected you, but I haven't scrolled down the post yet to see.
CB will "skip" nicely in the daytime and occasionally a bit at night. I've talked to people 1300 miles away and heard people from the Caribbean and from Europe (though they could not hear me reply) on CB.
JethrowJohnson
Active Member
How does it really work?
west-pac
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Under the right conditions any frequency can bounce off the ionosphere. There is no magic frequency range (1-10mhz) that only bounces. Low Band public safety was 30, 42, and 70Mhz, and you can read the stories about CHP and others being received on the other side of the US. CB is 27mhz and can certainly have 'skip' (bounce off the ionosphere). Even up in the 155Mhz and 450Mhz and higher there can be 'skip'. I've received the 139mhz WISCOM public safety radio system in central Indiana. I've received 170mhz MOSWIN (Missouri), 450mhz SIRN (West Virginia), and 150mhz VA STARS (Virgina) as well; all with an antenna that is 25 feet above ground level. So, any freq can bounce off the ionosphere under the right conditions.
Ionospheric skip through CB is very common and as mentioned can happen through 70MHz. “Skip” above 70MHz is almost always tropospheric ducting.
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