Jackson Switch Complete

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1268

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Jackson County completed the switch to a Mototrbo UHF system at 5:30 PM tonight when a page went out switching all Fire/EMS to the new system.

Data base admin please note that in Jackson County area that all primary communications now use Mototrbo .
 

N8IAA

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I guess they don't expect any help from surrounding counties anymore now that they are totally off the grid:roll:
Larry
 

procopper7005

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I believe they still have VHF radios in all the cars with the surrounding agencies and state band installed. But these are wide band radios.

In my opinion all agencies statewide should have state band VHF in every marked car. This is how its been done in rural and semi rural GA and its works very well.
 

JRayfield

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The system may have interoperability with analog and even P25, at the 'infrastructure level'. That's a good way to maintain interoperability. MOTOTRBO radios can also be programmed for analog, on a channel-by-channel basis.

So just because someone switches over to a MOTOTRBO system, that doesn't mean that they've lost interoperability. That idea is simply a 'myth', usually propagated by people who don't like the idea of public safety agencies using MOTOTRBO.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

I guess they don't expect any help from surrounding counties anymore now that they are totally off the grid:roll:
Larry
 

N8IAA

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The system may have interoperability with analog and even P25, at the 'infrastructure level'. That's a good way to maintain interoperability. MOTOTRBO radios can also be programmed for analog, on a channel-by-channel basis.

So just because someone switches over to a MOTOTRBO system, that doesn't mean that they've lost interoperability. That idea is simply a 'myth', usually propagated by people who don't like the idea of public safety agencies using MOTOTRBO.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma
John, once again I am posting my opinion. Your post would have been best left at the explaination of interoperability with mototrbo. Why must you continuously fan the flames:confused: Guess I will be downloading DSP and listening to Jackson county's new system:)
Larry
 

JRayfield

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I'm sorry. I did not take your comment that they are "off the grid", as an opinion. It appeared to be made as a 'factual' statement. But, they are not really 'off the grid', if they have interoperability with other agencies. That was the point that I was trying to make. Again, I'm sorry if I misunderstood how you were expressing yourself.

As to the rest of my post, let me explain my thinking....

Many statements, when presented as 'fact', even when they are an opinion, tend to just continue to promote incorrect information. Those who read these posts, and don't understand the 'true' facts, then just repeat this mis-information, again as fact, and it goes on and on.

I'm just trying to correct mis-information like this. The 'flames' start shooting up when those who make such incorrect statements get mad when the correct information is presented to them. Sure a person can have an opinion, but when a person presents their 'opinion', and it isn't based on true facts, and the true facts are presented, shouldn't they accept that, instead of getting mad?

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma

John, once again I am posting my opinion. Your post would have been best left at the explaination of interoperability with mototrbo. Why must you continuously fan the flames:confused: Guess I will be downloading DSP and listening to Jackson county's new system:)
Larry
 

N8IAA

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It isn't about being mad, John. If you had looked at the icon at the end of my comment, it has rolling eyes for sarcasm. New radio systems will always come up throwing roadblocks in the monitoring hobby. For example: analog trunking 20 years ago. I've gone from crystal scanners to digital receivers. Always a new challenge in the hobby. Jackson county may come under the microscope for how they handled the switch from analog to digital. Not for the system. I'll just have to find other ways to monitor in the new 'digital age'. I've had an interest in some form of radio for over 50 years. It won't go away anytime soon.
Larry
 

JRayfield

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I didn't mean you, when I referred to some getting mad. Not at all. Sometimes this form of communications is not so good....

Now I understand exactly what you're talking about. And I couldn't agree more with you. Again, I'm sorry for misunderstanding you. I think, too, I'm a bit 'on edge' sometimes, because of so many who do seem to get mad over some of this, when there is no need for that. Maybe I need to 'chill out' a bit. :)

I love learning new things. That's why I do like the new digital technologies, like MOTOTRBO. I've also played around with some of the newer digital modes on HF, such as the new Winmor protocol.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma


It isn't about being mad, John. If you had looked at the icon at the end of my comment, it has rolling eyes for sarcasm. New radio systems will always come up throwing roadblocks in the monitoring hobby. For example: analog trunking 20 years ago. I've gone from crystal scanners to digital receivers. Always a new challenge in the hobby. Jackson county may come under the microscope for how they handled the switch from analog to digital. Not for the system. I'll just have to find other ways to monitor in the new 'digital age'. I've had an interest in some form of radio for over 50 years. It won't go away anytime soon.
Larry
 

MTS2000des

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the poor planning was Jackson county using the UHF band, regardless of the air interface. Everyone around them is 700/800 and mostly VHF (analog and DMR).

The lack of multi-band radios that support UHF, and DMR, is the big downer for interoperability.

The idea of patching radio systems together is half *** and doesn't work in the real world. It requires resources, usually an operator to intervene and manage a connection, and it is also dependent on infrastructure (VOIP, VPN, microwave, etc) to work- of course during a disaster these can be compromised.

Having radios that are compatible with common mutual aid frequencies aren't a luxury John, they are a necessity in this business. Unfortunately, Jackson county now is isolated and unless they kept their VHF radios around, this was a poor decision on their part.

I don't see a reason why they could not have gone TRBO on VHF do you?
Would have made more sense. Until Motorola starts making dual band DMR subs, they are stuck. Or they decide to release a HOST for the APX line that supports DMR.
 

1268

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Couple things :

A. The whole system is encrypted. So no one is going to listen regardless of what they download etc.

B. The whole UHF/VHF argument is rather vain in that VHF has become a pain in the backside. The FCC has been giving like frequencies out to systems close together and the bleed over was awful.

Lets say this was not TRBO but Nextedge or a Harris pro voice system.... you still can't scan it and it would still have been encrypted. VHF /UHF is really a mote point isn't it ?

And one last thing Jackson has been carrying extra radios for a long time as Hall,Gwinnett and Athens Clarke are all 800 mhz. The best out would have been an Astro P25 system but $$ is what killed it.
 

radioman2001

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Since I like to fan the flames against MOTOTRBO, the encryption is pretty weak, even more so the DVP or DES. With computer programs you can get the color code and slot, that lowers the number of available codes making it easier to decipher. MOTOTRBO lists the number of possible codes for their encryption to include the color and time slots as part of their math making it appear that it is more secure than it really is. So listening is possible with some intense number crunching,even though it is illegal.
 

JRayfield

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You make some good points here, that I do agree with. It really brings out what I've said many times before - there's more to 'interoperability' than just 'P25'. Being on different bands does create a problem that can be more difficult to deal with, in terms of interoperability. And I do wish that Motorola would introduce an APX model with DMR in it. I think it would be very 'wise' on their part. Of course, small rural agencies can't afford APX's anyway, so that's another problem in itself.

As to patching not working in the 'real world', I've had many years of experience with that and from personal experience, it can work extremely well, if designed properly. I developed a bi-directional controller, back in 1993, that has been used for some very large systems, and a lot of small ones, where public safety systems were 'patched' together. For example, one customer was the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, in Saskatchewan, where they had VHF repeaters and were moving part of their system over to 800 Mhz EDACS systems. This worked extremely well and they used them for many years. Washington Department of Transportation also used this product to 'patch' between the statewide 800 mhz EF Johnson MultiNet system and their state highway patrol's system. That system also worked very well.

John Rayfield, Jr. CETma


the poor planning was Jackson county using the UHF band, regardless of the air interface. Everyone around them is 700/800 and mostly VHF (analog and DMR).

The lack of multi-band radios that support UHF, and DMR, is the big downer for interoperability.

The idea of patching radio systems together is half *** and doesn't work in the real world. It requires resources, usually an operator to intervene and manage a connection, and it is also dependent on infrastructure (VOIP, VPN, microwave, etc) to work- of course during a disaster these can be compromised.

Having radios that are compatible with common mutual aid frequencies aren't a luxury John, they are a necessity in this business. Unfortunately, Jackson county now is isolated and unless they kept their VHF radios around, this was a poor decision on their part.

I don't see a reason why they could not have gone TRBO on VHF do you?
Would have made more sense. Until Motorola starts making dual band DMR subs, they are stuck. Or they decide to release a HOST for the APX line that supports DMR.
 

procopper7005

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Jackson just needs the same few channels it was using. Why not just narrow band VHF analog? Would have been less expensive than their current choice and worked just fine.
The field users already cant talk to Athens, Gwinnett, or Hall. Their deputies arent carrying 800mhz radios in their vehicles, they just have VHF state band car/car to talk with the counties still on VHF and GSP.

I highly doubt their dispatch are going to set up patches with all the surrounding counties on the various systems being used. They cant even use their portables to talk in the 800 tacs.

UHF was a dumb choice, stay simple, stay VHF narrow or go to an 800mhz system if you have that many users which Jackson doesnt.
 
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