Jefferson City, MO - Mo. candidates back nationwide police radio system

[Thunderbolt]

JEFFERSON CITY, Mo. -- Missouri's U.S. Senate candidates say they support a federal effort to create a nationwide communication system for emergency responders.

Mo. candidates back nationwide police radio system - KOAM TV 7 Joplin and Pittsburg News Weather Sports

 

[radioman2001]

Something I have been saying for the last year. Let the Feds design it, fund it and build it. Then force everybody on it. Then revoke all other licenses. That's the only way to get true interoperability, and get the vendors out of this propriatary mind set.

 

[cifd64]

Something I have been saying for the last year. Let the Feds design it, fund it and build it. Then force everybody on it. Then revoke all other licenses. That's the only way to get true interoperability, and get the vendors out of this propriatary mind set.

What do you mean by "all other licenses?"

 

[radioman2001]

All of their other radio licenses, there will be no need for them if they are on a standardized radio plan and frequency. Some local departments and some big ones )NYC for instance) have licenses on low, high uhf and 800. Take them all away and they will be forced to use interoperable frequencies. They want to chat let use cellphones.

 

[DPD1]

I keep waiting for the people pushing for this to give an example of what national "interoperability" would do in realty, but they just keep throwing out the fancy catch phrases. When exactly is an officer on the street in NY, going to need to talk to an officer on the street in VA? Or whatever. How would he even know who to ask for, or where to find them? And how are their bosses going to know what's going on if everybody just starts talking directly to each other, with no oversight? They want to spend billions so people don't have to use a phone? We probably have one of the best mobile phone systems in the world. I don't get it.

 

[radioman2001]

That's assuming that the wireless phone network hasn't been compromised or is overloaded with everybody else other than PS talking to their family after the fact. The entire cell phone network in NYC failed miserably after 911 in NYC, a lot of the microwave systems on the trade towers up there were destroyed. Major phone vaults under the WTC were also destroyed. This in turn caused a lot of the sites and the main backbone for calls to be lost. I was there 24 hours after the fact there we microwave dishes temporarily set up all over the place to give cell service in the pit, and surrounding areas of Ground Zero.
Then again in 2003 after the blackout caused by a power failure in OHIO no one was able to use their phones for hours. I know my agency failed to listen to my warning about the reliance on cell phones, and when the blackout happened the entire town was all stuck on one conventional frequency. Even though our town had a trunked system and our agency failed to purchase additional radios or program it in our radios and train our personnel on it.
The reason for interoperablity is so when you call for assistance from another agency whether across the state or across the nation, they can all communicate at a scene. Not so a NYC officer can talk to VA.

 

[cifd64]

But in a different context, that is exactly what interoperability is. So NYPD can respond to VA on an IMAT and be able to communicate seamlessly. That is interoperability.

All of their other radio licenses, there will be no need for them if they are on a standardized radio plan and frequency. Some local departments and some big ones )NYC for instance) have licenses on low, high uhf and 800. Take them all away and they will be forced to use interoperable frequencies. They want to chat let use cellphones.

A completely inneffective argument. NYC has many subscribers, and to use a national bandplan for day-to-day communications would bring essential services to a grinding halt. However, looking at the two largest agencies (FDNY/NYPD) we can see that FD has 5 Borough frequencies and then the HT channels for on-scene comms. However, NYPD which utilizes many channels per borough needs those channels to have effective comms. having a limited number of freqs would not be conducive to their operations. Having many channels does not affect interoperability.

 

[W2NJS]

Ask someone "in power" (congressman, senator, etc.) what exactly a national emergency radio system means and they won't be able to tell you, because they're just repeating something some staff member has told them. The idea won't work because it has no clearly defined practical purpose or use, which is what many have already said on this thread.

 

[DPD1]

That's assuming that the wireless phone network hasn't been compromised or is overloaded with everybody else other than PS talking to their family after the fact. The entire cell phone network in NYC failed miserably after 911 in NYC, a lot of the microwave systems on the trade towers up there were destroyed. Major phone vaults under the WTC were also destroyed. This in turn caused a lot of the sites and the main backbone for calls to be lost. I was there 24 hours after the fact there we microwave dishes temporarily set up all over the place to give cell service in the pit, and surrounding areas of Ground Zero.
Then again in 2003 after the blackout caused by a power failure in OHIO no one was able to use their phones for hours. I know my agency failed to listen to my warning about the reliance on cell phones, and when the blackout happened the entire town was all stuck on one conventional frequency. Even though our town had a trunked system and our agency failed to purchase additional radios or program it in our radios and train our personnel on it.
The reason for interoperablity is so when you call for assistance from another agency whether across the state or across the nation, they can all communicate at a scene. Not so a NYC officer can talk to VA.

I get that... But you're talking about spending billions on something, so that what... a USAR team can still use their own radios when they go help somebody in another area? For something that is maybe a once in 20 years event? That's a ton of money for that ability. And how is a new system going to be more impervious than the phone system? Anything that is built into that area could be negatively affected as well, just like everything else... and probably will be. God forbid... What if we're talking about major destruction... Like miles of the city gone. There won't be a radio system, period.

If you want to build something to survive, why not go all the way and do it right... Seems to me like it would make a lot more sense to have some sort of stationary and mobile command centers strategically placed, which could be completely radio agile to route information between everything from CB to WiFi. The redundancy of that would almost be impossible to destroy. If centers get wiped out in an area, you bring in the next closest ones. This is the approach the military takes... They build redundancy into the system through mobility. All this could be done for a fraction of what a full blown national system would cost... most of which would barely ever be used to it's full capability.

 

[B_Mitchell]

How expensive would it be to equip all police vehicles with a radio programmed to 155.475, the national mutual aid frequency ? or the 800Mhz mutaul aid frequencies ?
We don't need a sludge hammer to crack open a peanut,.
How much "mutual aid" do we really need anyway ?

 

[radioman2001]

The point is being missed somewhere. the statement was why does a NYC officer need to talk to VA. he doesn't, yes he would need to talk to them if they responded down there as they have in the past gone to CA and LA. Using nationwide channels for day to day is not what is being suggested or recommended. That statement in it self shows your misunderstanding of what a nationwide system is. A nationwide system would be using the same frequencies over and over again throughout this great nation. Just like cellular does now. I don't see the cellular phone system coming to a grinding halt as you say because of traffic. There are. and I am guessing here based on a recent suit settlement in NY about 95 million cellular customers on Verizon alone. Way more than all the PS radios together. Their system works just fine. I am not advocating any type, brand or kind of system, just one that is built, and payed for by the Feds. Europe does it now. P25 phase 2 might do it, I don't know. If it need be that all the other frequencies being used by other users be revoked and reassigned ,so be it. If my tax dollars are going to pay for, I don't want it to be a propriateary system for some vendor to have as a cash cow for the next 30 years at my expense. Especially if it doesn't work right and can't talk to the neighboring town.

 

[cifd64]

Not to mention the fact that the national system is not something that would be 'installed'. COM-L's or Communications Unit Leaders in the ICS Structure are trained to establish radio networks locally and wide-area. So even if an area were devestated, COM-L's from across the country would be able to establish communications in the same manner. that is what is meant by the statement.

 

[cifd64]

How expensive would it be to equip all police vehicles with a radio programmed to 155.475, the national mutual aid frequency ? or the 800Mhz mutaul aid frequencies ?
We don't need a sludge hammer to crack open a peanut,.
How much "mutual aid" do we really need anyway ?

And you dont need to put a radio in each car. you patch their channel into that frequency. What a lot of non-responders here dont understand is just because i operate on a talkgroup, it doesnt mean i cant talk to someone on VHF.

 

[cifd64]

How much "mutual aid" do we really need anyway ?

Do you remember 9/11? Katrina? how easily we forget how fast local resources are consumed when the $#!+ hits the fan.

 

[mancow]

Why should as a tax payer be forced to pay for another State's system? What happened to States being responsible for their own infrastructure as the Constitution intended?

Of all the States Missouri seems like one that would get the worst end of the stick if such a plan went forward. I say this because the Feds hate the midwest. It's obvious what would happen. States on the east and west coasts would have towers sprouting like weeds and every politician's brother and acquaintance would have 200% coverage and 100 talk groups each. Meanwhile States like Missouri would end up with very few resources and nobody would care.

 

[Ensnared]

Remember, we want government out of our lives, don't we?

 

[radioman2001]

Don't feel bad about the mid-west, I guess you forget about how Nixon decimated Mass when he didn't win there in 1972. Anyway this system would or should be mandated by Congress, Governed by ???, it will be paid by us no matter how you look at it. Just look at all the funds now created for national security, and being used for radio systems (and other things so ridiculus, such as garbage trucks). There is no way to get around that, its politics as usual, so I am saying that if I am going to pay for interoperable radio system then it should be truly interoperable and not some propriatary system. Again I am not advocating any type of system or brand just something that is interoperable, I am not suggesting in any way or means or method for mutual aid working with an interoperable system, I am just suggesting that it be interoperable, and if it requires revoking and reassigning liceneses even TV channels so be it. I can not stress enough that if the EU can do it, we can do it better and should do the same thing.
We already have government in our lives. Too late Ensnared.
As far as paying for others states radio systems, then I guess Missouri should stop getting all federal funds that may be used for their radios systems.

 

[mancow]

This whole interop thing is BS, plain and simple. How many times do agencies REALLY need to be patched in to each other? 99.9% of the time they could care less about each other and have to be dragged kicking and screaming just to pick up a phone.

I don't want any more Federal control of ANYTHING. All they do is politicize and manipulate. A system like that would be used just like highway funds or military base closures etc... to persuade whatever Congressperson is looking for a handout or needs to be nudged into place.

As for Missouri and other States already getting funds, I don't agree with that either. They should take care of themselves by budgeting for such things. Look at California. They are getting some ludicrous 155+ mil grant for a huge nasty system. Why should a portion of my check go to State that drove itself off a financial cliff by trying to become a grand social experiment over the last 40 years. They can buy used ebay crap and continue sucking on lowband for all I care. It's not my problem, nor should it be.

 

[DPD1]

That would be fine with me, I like lowband. ;-)

 

[mancow]

I do too but unfortunately a request for 2000 lowband transmitters probably won't win a Safecom grant.