Johns Creek police and dispatch encryption

[dudegt]

So, I live in Johns Creek and they are apart of the Fulton County Public Safety P25 and they run most of their dispatch calls encrypted however some calls for some reason go in the clear unencrypted which I think is odd. But anyways I wrote a letter to the mayor asking what the reason is and asking if he could consider going unencrypted allowing scanners to listen in on what is happening in the city and the usual "go unencrypted argument". And so my email was forwarded to the City Manager (Ed Densmore) and this was his response,
"The City of Johns Creek moved to encryption as part of our joint interoperability with multiple neighboring agencies in 2017. This was done to make sure our First responders could communicate across jurisdictional lines in the event of an emergency. As our First responders are met with more challenging demands we also must balance the safety of our staff and coordination of resources as well."
In my opinion, this doesn't make much sense. But I am wondering what you guys thoughts on this are.

(I don't mean for this to be a rant just an opinion post asking for what people think about JCPDs response to my email. Also to see what the counter-argument is an just to get another opinion on the unencrypted argument.)

 

[Casey]

Actually Chatcomm dispatch (who dispatches for JC) is more times than not dispatching in the clear while mobiles are usually encrypted...however your efforts probably will fix that now too

 

[dudegt]

Actually Chatcomm dispatch (who dispatches for JC) is more times than not dispatching in the clear while mobiles are usually encrypted...however your efforts probably will fix that now too

Makes sense the messages I hear in the clear are usually dispatch calls but communications between officers are most likely encrypted?

 

[Casey]

Makes sense the messages I hear in the clear are usually dispatch calls but communications between officers are most likely encrypted?

JCPD channel is not what they called 'bootstrapped' encrypted...meaning that the parties have to flip the E switch and most have...I have noticed some radios in the field either on purpose or by accident do not send out encrypted voice...and the Chatcomm dispatch console operator usually does not leave their console on E...of course this could change day to day but my sample listening is that dispatch is clear and most of the mobile radios in the field have E on...with one or two stragglers that don't have it on.

 

[dudegt]

JCPD channel is not what they called 'bootstrapped' encrypted...meaning that the parties have to flip the E switch and most have...I have noticed some radios in the field either on purpose or by accident do not send out encrypted voice...and the Chatcomm dispatch console operator usually does not leave their console on E...of course this could change day to day but my sample listening is that dispatch is clear and most of the mobile radios in the field have E on...with one or two stragglers that don't have it on.

Very interesting so the officers have the choice to be encrypted.

 

[Giddyuptd]

Encryption was originally programmed by most as user defined ie a push button or switch. When changes from analog or p25 radios to new radios with capability came it's done so migration can occur.

Dispatch consoles do go down or log out and next one in comes.

With attention to it id imagine they will resolve the non strapped issue on both dispatch and infield and program they be to fully strapped and disable any user interaction with it.

 

[DanRollman]

So, I live in Johns Creek and they are apart of the Fulton County Public Safety P25 and they run most of their dispatch calls encrypted however some calls for some reason go in the clear unencrypted which I think is odd. But anyways I wrote a letter to the mayor asking what the reason is and asking if he could consider going unencrypted allowing scanners to listen in on what is happening in the city and the usual "go unencrypted argument". And so my email was forwarded to the City Manager (Ed Densmore) and this was his response,
"The City of Johns Creek moved to encryption as part of our joint interoperability with multiple neighboring agencies in 2017. This was done to make sure our First responders could communicate across jurisdictional lines in the event of an emergency. As our First responders are met with more challenging demands we also must balance the safety of our staff and coordination of resources as well."
In my opinion, this doesn't make much sense. But I am wondering what you guys thoughts on this are.

(I don't mean for this to be a rant just an opinion post asking for what people think about JCPDs response to my email. Also to see what the counter-argument is an just to get another opinion on the unencrypted argument.)

This has been my experience when asking most "powers that be" why they are encrypted - they don't know, or they offer a reason that actually doesn't make sense. Obviously the reason the city manager offered here is patently false - encryption in no way aids interoperability with their adjacent jurisdictions, since their adjacent jurisdictions (other than Gwinnett) aren't even encrypted.

The truth is that encryption is mostly a means to limit citizen oversight of government. Other reasons are either (1) completely made up, and don't even make logical sense, like the reason you were given, or (2) would actually make logical sense if the events in question (bank robbers with scanners) actually happened, but very rarely if ever actually happen. What happens a lot is citizen oversight and familiarity with routine government operations, and if we're a city manager we've definitely got to put a stop to that.

And yet the truth is that encryption is almost always here to stay, and will only increase not decrease (I say "almost always", because there are rare examples where lobbying government to turn off encryption has paid off, like Orange County, CA fire services).

 

[MTS2000des]

Very interesting so the officers have the choice to be encrypted.

no, it's subscriber programming that hasn't been completed. Once it is, full time encryption implementation will be completed. The same applies to console strapping of resources.

 

[dudegt]

This has been my experience when asking most "powers that be" why they are encrypted - they don't know, or they offer a reason that actually doesn't make sense. Obviously the reason the city manager offered here is patently false - encryption in no way aids interoperability with their adjacent jurisdictions, since their adjacent jurisdictions (other than Gwinnett) aren't even encrypted.

The truth is that encryption is mostly a means to limit citizen oversight of government. Other reasons are either (1) completely made up, and don't even make logical sense, like the reason you were given, or (2) would actually make logical sense if the events in question (bank robbers with scanners) actually happened, but very rarely if ever actually happen. What happens a lot is citizen oversight and familiarity with routine government operations, and if we're a city manager we've definitely got to put a stop to that.

And yet the truth is that encryption is almost always here to stay, and will only increase not decrease (I say "almost always", because there are rare examples where lobbying government to turn off encryption has paid off, like Orange County, CA fire services).

I pointed this out in the email to the mayor, saying that other agencies in the system aren't encrypted so why is yours? Even agencies in NFRRSA aren't encrypted. Johns Creek is one of the only encrypted agencies in Fulton County (other than FCSO Jail Operations which makes sense) that is encrypted. When I read the response I immediately thought to myself "well this is just some political mumbo jumbo they're trying to tell me to get me off there back.

 

[dudegt]

no, it's subscriber programming that hasn't been completed. Once it is, full time encryption implementation will be completed. The same applies to console strapping of resources.

Oh, so it seems that soon JCPD will become fully encrypted so then all calls cannot be heard in the clear?

 

[dudegt]

For reference, this is my original email to my mayor,


"Hello Mayor Bodker, my name is Ryan - and I am a HAM radio enthusiast and avid police scanner, listener. I listen to the Fulton County Public Safety P25 (Trunked System in which JCPD and JCFD belong to) but I have noticed that unfortunately most of the dispatch calls as well as routine police calls on the JCPD Dispatch are encrypted. This is unfortunate because I am unable to hear what is happening around the city. Many departments in the surrounding area run there police dispatch unencrypted allowing for citizens to listen in, which shows police transparency and increased trust among the police and the community. I think that the Johns Creek Police Department should consider running there main police dispatch channel unencrypted allowing citizens to listen in on what is happening in our city and doing so causes more trust among the police and the community because there is no secrecy about what the police are doing. I understand wanting your Tac and Detectives calls encrypted but your main dispatch, in my opinion, should be in the clear, unencrypted."

 

[Giddyuptd]

With current environment and those who make revenue off following traffic stops or showing up to calls not much will change. These folks are known as "auditors".

 

[MTS2000des]

All I can tell you is one who reaches out to government officials should choose their words carefully. In other words, divulging of what one hears on public forums doesn't support the cause. Do the math.

 

[radiohead90]

For reference, this is my original email to my mayor,


"Hello Mayor Bodker, my name is Ryan - and I am a HAM radio enthusiast and avid police scanner, listener. I listen to the Fulton County Public Safety P25 (Trunked System in which JCPD and JCFD belong to) but I have noticed that unfortunately most of the dispatch calls as well as routine police calls on the JCPD Dispatch are encrypted. This is unfortunate because I am unable to hear what is happening around the city. Many departments in the surrounding area run there police dispatch unencrypted allowing for citizens to listen in, which shows police transparency and increased trust among the police and the community. I think that the Johns Creek Police Department should consider running there main police dispatch channel unencrypted allowing citizens to listen in on what is happening in our city and doing so causes more trust among the police and the community because there is no secrecy about what the police are doing. I understand wanting your Tac and Detectives calls encrypted but your main dispatch, in my opinion, should be in the clear, unencrypted."

I hope ( you ) learn from life's lessons

 

[ka3jjz]

Dudegt - please see your PM....Mike

 

[genemalet]

I've heard of some people doing things like petitions, attending village board meetings with a group of residents and very few have swayed the village in change their radio system unless you want to pay for the change and pay for the maintenance of their system.

 

[RRR]

.......... and those who make revenue off following traffic stops ............

Generally curious, how can someone make revenue by following traffic stops?

 

[Giddyuptd]

Generally curious, how can someone make revenue by following traffic stops?

Those who choose to become "independent journalists" aka alternate view media who live off and revenue of ads on YouTube to other platforms and beggars donations to travel following k9 in a dark alley knowing a active shooting suspect is on run while spotlighting officers for anti law enforcement propaganda.

 

[maxxkatt]

It is the same with contacting a government official/clerk and try to get permission to metal detect in a park or city property. Shortly after your inquiry a new park rules sign will go up saying no digging or metal detecting if there was not already on on the property.

Rule number one: never ask a government employee anything about your hobby. Only bad can come from it. Government officials never get in trouble saying "no" but they run a risk saying "yes" to any citizen's requests.

 

[MTS2000des]

Rule number one: never ask a government employee anything about your hobby. Only bad can come from it. Government officials never get in trouble saying "no" but they run a risk saying "yes" to any citizen's requests.

This part. Contacting government officials and bringing attention to things will often get undesired results. Sometimes it's better to remain silent than to speak up and remove all doubt.