Johnson County P25 System

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MadSpleen85

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Semi Off-Topic question... I know there are a few Firefighters, Paramedics, Police personnel on here. I am looking for info dealing with the Medical Radio system monitoring and sharing that information. Is there anything protecting the patient's information from being shared or published? If you are familiar or can point me in the right direction to find an answer, please shoot me a PM. Don't want to get this entire thread completely off topic. Thanks in advance.
 

Jack007

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I had been monitoring KHP here in JOCO on their old 800 system. Now it appears they're gone. Have they finally abandoned it? I still hear some traffic on the WYCO KCK single channel.
If so, can someone please let me know where they are? Is it here on the P25 or somewhere else? If so, does someone have the IDs yet?
If not, where can I find the list of freqs?
Thanks.
Jack007
 

olathetyler

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I had been monitoring KHP here in JOCO on their old 800 system. Now it appears they're gone. Have they finally abandoned it? I still hear some traffic on the WYCO KCK single channel.
If so, can someone please let me know where they are? Is it here on the P25 or somewhere else? If so, does someone have the IDs yet?
If not, where can I find the list of freqs?
Thanks.
Jack007

KHP is using the JOCO P25 system now.
TG31501 Dispatch
TG31502 Common
 

MadSpleen85

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KHP seems to have bounced back and forth between the JoCo P25 system and the KSICS P25 system.

Hopefully they will land on one system and stick with it. More options for Interoperability on KSICS but inside JoCo, obviously being on the same system as most of the other agencies is a big plus.
 

Jack007

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Well, I plugged in all those freqs and TGIDs and I'm back in business.
Sort of.
The reception on my 396T sucks on P25 and the KHP is no exception. :)

I never thought I'd say I miss 800 trunk but compared to digital...?
I'm placing my hopes in the manuf like Uniden seeing the demand in a scanner able to overcome this multiplex, simulcast (or whatever its called) issue. If they were able to figure out how to follow trunking on multiple systems simultaneously (only a dream 15 years ago) they'll figure this out too.

Until they all just start encrypting everything, right? LOL

Thanks to all who helped answer my plea.

Jack007
PS. KHP is still simulcasting on the WYCO 800 system. As always, it depends on the particular trooper if you hear the car.
 

MadSpleen85

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Jack, I have only owned Radio Shack Digitals so I can't confirm this but I have heard that the Radio Shack digitals tend to out perform the Uniden's on some of the many P25 systems.

There was also a rumor floating around that KHP had switched their in car scanners to the Radio Shack Pro-197 for the very reason that they worked better on the JoCo 700 system compared to the Uniden Digitals. This rumor also included a few dispatch centers in the county as well. I have not heard from anyone willing to confirm this is the case but, I have heard the rumor from several different and completely unrelated sources.
 

Jack007

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Hey Mad!
Thanks for the info. Yes, I had also heard some RS owners say they thought they performed somewhat better than their Unidens in side by side trials.
Interesting note about the agency use. Does make you wonder, huh?

I'm gonna try and stick it out for a while with my old 396. It would be just my luck that a newer and better unit will appear as soon as I buy something. :)

Jack
 

mancow

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The PSR-800 far outperforms the Uniden 396 T, XT and 996 T on the system. I have no experience with the 996 XT model.
 

MadSpleen85

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I have noticed in the last couple weeks that the system seems to be using the 800Mhz freqs more often then it seemed to in the past.

The 700Mhz freqs seem to be clearer audio, for me at least. The 800s seem to be more broken traffic.
 

Jack007

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I am getting a little confused.

I thought it was a 700Mhz system. Unless you're not following it trunked, I don't get how you know what freq you're monitoring at any given time?

Also, I asked a while back on this forum why there were a couple of 800Mhz freqs even listed? I got no replies, but I see that somebody mentioned they removed the 800s and still was able to follow it. I don't completely understand it. Those 800 freqs must be there for a reason. How critical they are remains a mystery to me?

Jack007
 

mancow

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Depending what radio you use you can see the voice frequency on the display as it follows the conversation. That's how you know.
 

Jack007

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Ah, I see.
I don't know if my 396 does that or not. The numbers are so small that all I can ever see is the big CAPS alpha tags I use. Have to put readers on to see more and its hard to do that when I'm speeding down the road! LOL

Thanks for the clarification.

Jack007
 

MadSpleen85

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I am getting a little confused.

I thought it was a 700Mhz system. Unless you're not following it trunked, I don't get how you know what freq you're monitoring at any given time?

Also, I asked a while back on this forum why there were a couple of 800Mhz freqs even listed? I got no replies, but I see that somebody mentioned they removed the 800s and still was able to follow it. I don't completely understand it. Those 800 freqs must be there for a reason. How critical they are remains a mystery to me?

Jack007

On the Radio Shack Pro-106 (pictured below) and the Pro-197, they both will show you the freq that is in use. Once that freq clicks off the display shows the TG ID that was just used then goes back to scanning.

IMG_0664.jpg

^^ Pro-106 with Shawnee PD Channel 2 using one of the 800Mhz freqs ^^

IMG_0667.jpg

^^ Pro-106 just after Shawnee PD Channel 2 has stopped being used (Delay). Display shows the TG ID. ^^

Dimly lit room so not ideal for pictures even with a DSLR but the display is clear to get the point across.


The person that posted about removing the 800Mhz freqs will be missing the traffic that is broadcast on the 800Mhz freqs. So they are only getting half of a conversation or missing the conversation entirely, depending on what freq the system hits on when they click on their mic.
 

Jack007

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Nice pics! Definitely worth 10000 words. LOL

Then obviously there's zero doubt that the 800 freqs are being used and essential.
Still leaves me with the lingering question of why...why use a couple 800s in an obvious progression of 700s?

The reason must either be technical or bureaucratic (ie money)...?

Thanks for clearing that up and taking the time to post the pics!

BTW, Still fighting my 396. Tonight I was at Johnson Dr. & Nieman and Shawnee was so garbled/distorted I barely understood what was said. Does that RS scanner ever sound that bad? Mine doesn't do it always, but its sure irritating when it does.

Jack007
 

MadSpleen85

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The 800Mhz freqs are definitely being used right now by the system.

I am not sure what the story is behind a primarily 700Mhz system having a few 800Mhz freqs thrown into the mix.

Were you on foot or in a vehicle? If you were in a vehicle, your issue with the garbled/distorted audio could be that your antenna is under the metal roof of the vehicle. This has always effected signal strength but has really become evident with P25 systems, in my experience anyway.

I have looked at mobile antenna for attaching to my vehicle specifically for this system alone. Have not bought anything simply because I do not spend enough time in my vehicle with the scanner to make it worth my effort. Not outrageously expensive if you were to go that route.

Depends on if you are going to go with a 700-800Mhz antenna or something for a wider listening range, what kind of mount you choose, etc. I looked at a Unity Gain antenna for the car that was only 3.3 inches in height plus height of the mount. Right around $20.

Dedicated 700Mhz Mobile antenna, 700 MHz Range
Wider range of Mobile antenna, Mobile Antennas

Just have to watch that you match the antenna you choose with the right style of mount and make sure you have a large enough ground plane if the antenna you choose requires one.
 
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Jack007

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Well, I don't think its the antenna. I wish it was, though. That'd be a LOT cheaper! LOL

It depends where I am at the time. For example, I can get the P25 system as clear and distortion free...over on Mission Rd. in KCK! Get closer over here and it goes to hell. I suspect the culprit is this whole simulcast thing... (is that what it's called?) I'm thinking that when I'm on the fringe the scanner can only pick up one tower. When I'm over here its got competition and gets confused.
For the record, its just as bad sitting on my nightstand at 67th & Nieman. If in fact that is the issue, my hope again is, that the manuf see a need/demand and resolve it. After all, I remember when trunking first came on the scene. It sure wasn't any fun...

Jack007
 

bchappuie

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Olathe, Kansas
What I have done to make it a little better is to build the system with just one control channel, of the closest site, which for me is Olathe, and that way I don't hear the other site's control channels. It has helped a bunch in being able to get some understandable transmissions on the Olathe PD talk group, and fire dispatch seems alot better. I am in east Olathe.
 

Jack007

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Doesn't the control channel change all the time in a trunked system? I mean can't any one of the freqs be a CC and its rotated around constantly, or has that changed in P25?
Please educate me? LOL

Since mine is almost 90% mobile monitoring, I don't think that fix would work for me would it?

Jack007
 

MadSpleen85

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What I have done to make it a little better is to build the system with just one control channel, of the closest site, which for me is Olathe, and that way I don't hear the other site's control channels. It has helped a bunch in being able to get some understandable transmissions on the Olathe PD talk group, and fire dispatch seems alot better. I am in east Olathe.

Are you sure you are not missing transmissions? I am still learning the workings of the P25 systems but, I am confused how you believe you have programmed only one control channel or even one site on the system? How much of the system do you have programmed into your scanner? Just Olathe PD and ECC or do you have then entire system's TGs programmed? Have you listened to your scanner while at the same time having the RadioReference Live Feed for the system going on your computer?

The system is a 9 site simulcast.. Each site shares the exact same control channels and each site broadcasts the exact same thing, unless I have misread something about the workings of a Simulcast system.

If you look at the 2 FCC Callsigns assigned to this system, each site has a list of frequencies that is the same throughout the system. WQKX487 & WQKX488. There are differences such as the height of the antenna at each site, elevation and whether the site is a tower/pole/mast.

Without getting a highly directional antenna and having it spot on to the closest site to you, or living right next door to a site, I believe it is going to be nearly impossible to guarantee that you are only receiving transmissions from one site alone.

Again, I am far from completely familiar with the inner workings of a radio system this complex, just doesn't seem to add up to me.
 
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MadSpleen85

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The system seems to be extensively using the 800Mhz freqs available to it. A lot of those transmissions are nearly impossible to decipher what is being said. May get lucky and hear bits and pieces, while other times it is completely broken and I can't understand a word of it.

Trying different arrangements on the desk. The 700's are still crisp and clear as a bell, the 800's are my problem. I have completely removed the antenna from the Pro-197, seems to be helping quite a bit. Tried the stock antenna, my roof mounted discone, a 800Mhz antenna and no antenna at all. Going with no antenna is providing the best reception currently. Tried the same antennas with the 106 on the desk and the stock antenna seems to work best on it.

Also learned last night that Shawnee Police have an encrypted TG at their disposal. TG 31457, it was only referred to as "Tactical". They used it while working a barricaded, possibly suicidal subject Wednesday night into early Thursday morning. I did submit it to the Database as a known encrypted TG.
 
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