Johnson County P25 System

[WA0CBW]

You will be seeing KCK with the same MARCER (EMS) talkgroups that are on the JOCO and KCMO systems as soon as they go digital. These are separate systems (each have their own control channels) but have common interoperable talk groups. A mobile may roam geographically from one system to another but will still be listening to their systems' control channels. Interoperability allows them to stay on their own system yet show up on the same talkgroup on another system. You could think of this as being talkgroup simulcast on different systems.

 

[byndhlptom]

JoCo 700

I understand how the systems are setup. I just don't agree with the "consolidation" of the listings.

The reference previously to Johnson Co, MO was just a "what if", but definitely a possibility. Just the fact that Johnson Co,MO is so close adds to the confusion factor.

I would not want the KCK system merged in either.

The fact that they are different systems, managed by different agencies, and used in different areas should be reason enough to manage them seperately.

I'm sorry if some feathers get ruffled, but if it comes down to either easier for the admin's or easier for the end user (RR member), the decision should go to the user. After all, doesn't the database exist for the users?

I don't see this as being any different than in the "old days" of pretrunking. The fact that most agencies had access to the old 154.280 Fire m/a did not mean that all of the metro FD's were listed under KCMO FD.

If there is a discussion going on in another thread on how to magane/list these linked systems, point me to it. It needs to be discussed as I suspect many users may not like the "consolidation" that is happening here.

tom

 

[MadSpleen85]

I understand how the systems are setup. I just don't agree with the "consolidation" of the listings.

.....

The fact that they are different systems, managed by different agencies, and used in different areas should be reason enough to manage them seperately.

I'm sorry if some feathers get ruffled, but if it comes down to either easier for the admin's or easier for the end user (RR member), the decision should go to the user. After all, doesn't the database exist for the users?

.....

If there is a discussion going on in another thread on how to magane/list these linked systems, point me to it. It needs to be discussed as I suspect many users may not like the "consolidation" that is happening here.

tom

^^agreed

 

[hkrharry]

You will be seeing KCK with the same MARCER (EMS) talkgroups that are on the JOCO and KCMO systems as soon as they go digital. These are separate systems (each have their own control channels) but have common interoperable talk groups. A mobile may roam geographically from one system to another but will still be listening to their systems' control channels. Interoperability allows them to stay on their own system yet show up on the same talkgroup on another system. You could think of this as being talkgroup simulcast on different systems.

Hi BB

I know you have intimate knowledge of the goings on of the JoCo700 p-25 & the KCMO P-25 TRSs.

It seems our global board admins would like to have the 2 system merged, which they did a few nights ago. Of course from a DB admin position the data entry is easier this way .

They think that because they have the same SYSid and WACN that they should be treated as one item for DB purposes, of course some of our esteemed readers would have us think otherwise & I am kinda in the same line of thinking, from a position of a scanner-geek .... but I am also a DB admin so the data entry being easy me is nice too.

Tell us will the KCK P-25 TRS have the same SYSid and WACN as KCMO and JoCo Ks and will the Indp 700 System change too when they get things all worked out?

tell us a story

HH

 

[WA0CBW]

As I mentioned earlier they are SEPARATE systems. They do share some common interoperable talk groups. Think of those talk groups as mutual aid frequencies. You wouldn't group systems together just because they both have the same mutual aid frequencies. Also since these systems share the same geographic area a radio can be in a neighboring area but still be on their own system. Hence the use of some common talk groups (they have the same ID on all systems). If the user radio is programmed with both systems then it can access the others talk groups. But that fills up the radio with LOTS of talk groups.

BB

 

[factorone]

As I mentioned earlier they are SEPARATE systems. They do share some common interoperable talk groups. Think of those talk groups as mutual aid frequencies. You wouldn't group systems together just because they both have the same mutual aid frequencies. Also since these systems share the same geographic area a radio can be in a neighboring area but still be on their own system. Hence the use of some common talk groups (they have the same ID on all systems). If the user radio is programmed with both systems then it can access the others talk groups. But that fills up the radio with LOTS of talk groups.

BB

Agreed. The point of P25 is interoperability, nothing more, nothing less. It isn't about digital vs. analog, or even conventional vs. trunked. Ask any radio salesman or tech and they should realistically say the same thing.

That being said, the point of linking the two systems is interoperability--JoCo units can use KCMO, and vice versa. They can both transmit--and receive--from both sets of towers on both systems, but the systems are still separate, regardless of the label given to the system (MARRS).

Now, with the Kansas Statewide system, each tower has its own talkgroup "home profile" for the standard sets of users that typically talk on that tower, plus a handful of talkgroups that every tower has (e.g. KHP, KDOT, ICS, Interoperability, KBI, etc.); some also have certain talkgroups assigned to them, but don't rebroadcast traffic on them unless a radio has affiliated with the control channel on that particular tower (i.e. the end user is dragging traffic to the repeater). There is no reason why this same scenario can't (and isn't) present on the MARRS system, which is why it works.

If the systems themselves are separate, but linked, from a presentation standpoint, why would you show them as the same system, when in fact they're not? I realize that data entry is labor intensive, but using XML to import and export could greatly speed up the process, especially if there are identical talkgroups on both systems.

 

[byndhlptom]

JoCo 700

It's been a while with no definitive answer so I'll ask the question....

When will the JoCo 700 system be returned to it's rightful place (Johnson County KS listing)?

It has pretty well been determined that they are sperate systems. I shouldn't have to filter all the KCMO stuff out to load/listen to JoCo.

A side question....

How do you determine which linked system is the "parent"? the first, the largest, the most active? Since the JoCo system was up and running first, shouldn't the KCMO system have been added to it if you insist on listing them as one?

more stuff to think about......

 

[WA0CBW]

Ummmm.......There is no parent in the linked talk groups. The central controllers for each system "talk" to each other. Specific talk group ID's are are shared (duplicated) in each controller. These are hard coded in the controllers. In this type of "linking" each user is on their own system.

P25 systems are only interoperable if: they have pre-programmed talk groups as described above; or they have pre-programmed each others system ID's (when they are out of range of their own system). Each radio must have the correct system ID and control channel and the correct talk group ID's to talk to each other. Each radio stays on their own system until they lose the control channel of their own system and start searching for another control channel and system ID; or the user manually changes to a different system. There is no interoperable system ID or talk group number.

BB

 

[byndhlptom]

JoCo 700

I understand the technical side of the systems and how they are "linked". Sorry if I didn't use the technically correct terms. I was trying to keep it somewhat simple.

I was asking:

1) when (if) they plan on returning the JoCo, KS system to the JoCo, KS page as it was (where it should be).

2) how they decided what system to add whom. The use of the word parent was generic, I know that the JoCo system didn't "grow" into the Metro system. I was just curious what guidelines they used to decide who had the "core" system to add everyone else to.


My questions are still out there.....

 

[MadSpleen85]

I was asking:

1) when (if) they plan on returning the JoCo, KS system to the JoCo, KS page as it was (where it should be).

2) how they decided what system to add whom. The use of the word parent was generic, I know that the JoCo system didn't "grow" into the Metro system. I was just curious what guidelines they used to decide who had the "core" system to add everyone else to.


My questions are still out there.....

I think the closest to an answer you, or anyone else (myself included) are going to get is this...

It seems our global board admins would like to have the 2 system merged, which they did a few nights ago. Of course from a DB admin position the data entry is easier this way .

They think that because they have the same SYSid and WACN that they should be treated as one item for DB purposes, of course some of our esteemed readers would have us think otherwise & I am kinda in the same line of thinking, from a position of a scanner-geek .... but I am also a DB admin so the data entry being easy me is nice too.

If I am understanding hkrharry's explanation correctly, this is something that was done at the "global admin" level, the state/local admins had little to no say in the decision. The two systems share a "System ID" and WACN so global admin bunched them together.

I too was curious how MARRS comes along, nearly a year after the JoCo system had already been online and JoCo gets sucked into MARRS?

The only reasoning that makes any sense to me is the name. MARRS has a fancy name, where JoCo is simply "Johnson County 700 MHz."

So if the JoCo system had been named something like "Johnson County Area Wide Communications System" (JAWS), then would MARRS fall under the database entry for JAWS?

If there is a better explanation than that, I would love to hear it. I won't be holding my breath.

I realize this is the internet and far from a democracy BUT, the local admins would have a much tougher job if it were not for those of us in the hobby who submit information to the database. Not to mention those of us who purchase the "Premium Subscription" to support the site.

 

[BigC801]

I wonder how many newer guys are going to come along and try to enter everything on that page, there will be endless threads about why can't I hear all of the talkgroups in liberty or olathe.

Going by the thinking of the admins then St louis, Independence and MOSWIN should all be on the same page. to bad they will not listen to the people that live in the area, just like the govt they know better lol.

 

[mancow]

This is confusing, even for a person from the area.

So, how will this work with the PSR800 and I'm rolling around near both systems? How should I differentiate between KCMO and JoCo? As it is now, with both simulcast systems imported won't the radio lock on a close by JoCo 700 control channel and I will never hear CENTER or EAST from KCMO? It's not like they are actually doing a full simulcast of both right, only if a user roams into the system I am actually locked on?

Should I just import duplicate lists then rename them and edit the control channels?

 

[WA0CBW]

Here is how I program my scanner (396xt):
I create two systems (JOCO and KCMO). Enter the appropriate control channels for each system. Enter the appropriate talk group ID's in each system. Enter the common talk group ID's in both systems. (Currently the common ID's are the MARCER ambulance talk groups plus a couple of Interop talkgroup ID's.) Now scan both systems (and any other systems you have programmed).

Now how do you know which talk groups and control channels that go with each system? Hopefully you made a copy of the talk groups and control frequencies from early RR listings. Or you know someone who has a copy of the fleet map for both systems.

BB

 

[scannerowner]

I program them separately as well, I did combine them into one system, for MARCER, and KCMO still worked well for me. I programmed all the interop channels into KCMO because I listen more to KCMO than JOCO when I'm down there...

 

[billmcbride0128]

Let me be the first...

I wonder how many newer guys are going to come along and try to enter everything on that page, there will be endless threads about why can't I hear all of the talkgroups in liberty or olathe.

Going by the thinking of the admins then St louis, Independence and MOSWIN should all be on the same page. to bad they will not listen to the people that live in the area, just like the govt they know better lol.

You are absolutely right, new guy here!! I just purchased the BCD396XT, ARC-XT Pro software (that was supposed to make programming easier) the USB interface cable and a 800MHz 7" antenna. I tried and tried to get "anything" to come out of the scanner. I finally got it to receive several transmissions from JoCo Sheriff, Overland Park and Olathe.

Now, I had listened to an app on my iPhone and received a lot of traffic from Overland Park, Olathe, Shawnee and Lenexa. So, I thought a scanner would be the ticket to getting the agencies "I" wanted and the ability to add JoCo Sheriff's to the scanner as well. As it turns out, I had a difficult time getting it programmed (surprise!!) and ended up getting LESS transmissions than I can get on my iPhone. Talk about frustration... I am almost at the point of returning the 396XT and just returning to the iPhone app.

I ended up adding the WHOLE list of frequencies for JoCo and KCMO in one system and seem to get less than I did before. I guess what I am ultimately saying is, I would like help from you veterans who understands this stuff and figuring this thing out before I regrettably return it. Thank you for reading this novel on my issue and any help would be greatly appreciated. Or if you are willing to meet in the OP Olathe area and get hands on. I'll let you load the the ARC-XT Pro your computer to help if you want.

Please feel free to PM me not to junk up this thread, like I am sure other newbies are going to do.

Thank you in advance,
Bill

 

[MadSpleen85]

Well Bill, I won't be much help as far as the actual programming goes. I am not familiar with the Uniden scanners.

If you are looking to only monitor Johnson County, you only need the five control channels (frequencies marked in red on the database page).

As far as talkgroups go, you will only hear Johnson County users on the Johnson County control channels, with the exception of a very few talkgroups. LifeFlight Eagle and Hospital talkgroups are the only ones that are 100% simulcast between Jackson and Johnson County systems. There are a few regional inter-op's however I am not sure which of those are simulcast on both systems.

It sounds like you are on the right path, with the software and everything lined up. This seems to be more of an issue with the database being difficult to understand.

Feel free to shoot me a message if you need anything else or have any questions.


--Off Topic but, anyone local collect or have any interest in an old, maybe 70's-80's handheld CB? My neighbor has one she is trying to sell. Not sure how much she is wanting for it and I don't know much about it. I can find out more if there is anyone interested. I do know it is a GE and used but still has the original box/packaging in good shape.

 

[scannerowner]

You are absolutely right, new guy here!! I just purchased the BCD396XT, ARC-XT Pro software (that was supposed to make programming easier) the USB interface cable and a 800MHz 7" antenna. I tried and tried to get "anything" to come out of the scanner. I finally got it to receive several transmissions from JoCo Sheriff, Overland Park and Olathe.

Now, I had listened to an app on my iPhone and received a lot of traffic from Overland Park, Olathe, Shawnee and Lenexa. So, I thought a scanner would be the ticket to getting the agencies "I" wanted and the ability to add JoCo Sheriff's to the scanner as well. As it turns out, I had a difficult time getting it programmed (surprise!!) and ended up getting LESS transmissions than I can get on my iPhone. Talk about frustration... I am almost at the point of returning the 396XT and just returning to the iPhone app.

I ended up adding the WHOLE list of frequencies for JoCo and KCMO in one system and seem to get less than I did before. I guess what I am ultimately saying is, I would like help from you veterans who understands this stuff and figuring this thing out before I regrettably return it. Thank you for reading this novel on my issue and any help would be greatly appreciated. Or if you are willing to meet in the OP Olathe area and get hands on. I'll let you load the the ARC-XT Pro your computer to help if you want.

Please feel free to PM me not to junk up this thread, like I am sure other newbies are going to do.

Thank you in advance,
Bill

I don't use ARC Software, but understand both from the manual and with free scan how to program newer Uniden model scanners, if I could be any assistance let me know.

 

[BigC801]

I was going to make up a new freescann file for a guy, so I went to download Johnson Co from RR. First I had to go to Jackson Co missouri then click on Kansas City, so all ready messed up lol, then when I am looking at the sites both names are simulcast wow no wonder guys are having trouble. I am so glad the admins moved it there things are much better now.

 

[MadSpleen85]

I know I have mentioned it on here before and had several people tell me I was mishearing things but, I am still hearing it.

Johnson County ECC Dispatchers on the "Main" talkgroup 30101, dispatching a call for Miami County EMS and then requesting that the responding units switch to "Miami County Ops."

Like I mentioned before, I have been unable to locate this ops talkgroup. I have tried unlocking all of my locked out talkgroups and then been scanning wildcards when there is an active Miami County EMS call, still no luck locating the talkgroup.

Anyone happen to have the tgid for this? I do not see it in the disaster that has become the system database.

 

[scannerowner]

Could it possibly part of the KSICS system? I see in the database Miami County has a couple of talkgroups there...