Just starting out learning digital voice... leaning Fusion

[KQ7D]

I have considered digital radio from the outside looking in for a few years. I never quite understood the point. I've got a Network Radio (Inrico T320) and I don't know how different it is from DMR, DSTAR, Fusion, etc...

I do like Yaesu products so Wires-X seems a logical entry point. But I still have no real understanding of the "why" of digital radio. Any tips and guidance would be much appreciated.

This is one aspect of radio that YouTube doesn't seem to help (me) as much. My very basic understanding is that it's sort of similar to Echolink/IRLP. Am I incorrect?

It seems like another way to connect with hams all over, yet is less susceptible to propagation challenges. Is this just another naive assumption?

I may pick up a Yaesu FT5DR on a black Friday deal.

 

[iowabassplayer]

It is similar to Echolink, in that you can connect or talk to other Hams across the world. DSTAR, Fusion and DMR all work similarly - either connect to a digital-connected repeater using a Digital radio designed for the specific system you want to be on or get yourself a "HotSpot" which is basically your own personal repeater that connects to those systems through your internet connection. Each system requires a digital radio (DSTAR/DMR/FUSION) capable of using those specific systems (there isnt a radio that does it all) or a HotSpot which converts your radio's signal to a digital signal that the Fusion/DMR/DSTAR system can interpret.

These became very popular at the end of the last Solar Cycle when HF conditions were horrible - it was a way to "connect with hams all over, yet is less susceptible to propagation challenges" just as you stated.

Lots of folks love digital voice, lots of folks say it "isn't real ham radio" because you are using the internet as a connection. Opinions vary.

My personal setup is an FT-70 Yaesu and an Openspot 4 Hotspot. I can use my FT-70 in analog mode to talk to the local 2m and 440 analog repeaters and then use the same radio in digital mode to connect to my OpenSpot which allows me to access Bradnmeister and TGIF DMR systems, YSF rooms for Fusion, and the DSTAR network.

See if a local ham is "into" digital voice, and let you check it out first hand. Again, if you try it, you may fall in love with it. You may find it's not your cup of tea. Just like anything else in the radio hobby, see what you think!

 

[ko6jw_2]

Why use digital (regardless of mode) as opposed to analog? Digital offers "full quieting" with no noise. However, it is all or nothing. FM may be noisy and you may miss a word here and there but still get most of the message. Digital you may get nothing at all.

What mode to use? Each has its own fans. Fusion offers ease of use with no code plugs required. Only Yeasu makes C4FM radios at this time. DMR has a lot of users and is quite popular. More radios to choose from, more complicated to program. D-Star seems to have less traction. ICOM and Kenwood make radios. P25 has its community but no ham radio manufacturer has jumped on the bandwagon yet.

I am the trustee of a Fusion repeater. It operates both analog a digital offers Wires-X connectivity.

Your choice might be governed by local resources.

With an FT5, Wires-X software and a cable you can connect to PC and get on Wires-X without a repeater or a hotspot.

Hotspots need a bridge to connect to a Fusion room or mode. Not all rooms and nodes have these. Thus, a hotspot will limit your options on Fusion.

The FT5-DR is an excellent radio. If C4FM is your choice take a look at how widely it is used in your area. That ultimately may drive your choice. You might consider DMR if it has a larger user base. Or, start out with a hotspot and explore digital without spending a lot of money on a new radio.

 

[k6cpo]

DMR used to be only available through re-purposed Motorola MotoTurbo radios and the corresponding complicated code plugs. That changed with the introduction of relatively inexpensive DMR radios from China. The rest is history. The parsimonious ham community jumped on these radios like flies on you-know-what despite the difficulty of programming. I have both Fusion and DMR radios, and I much prefer the ease of use of fusion. I can shift from analog to digital with, depending on the radio, either a quick push of the PTT or one button on the front of the radio. DMR requires at least a channel change and sometimes, depending on programming, a zone change.

As far as I know, none of the big three Japanese manufacturers make DMR radios.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Lots of folks love digital voice, lots of folks say it "isn't real ham radio" because you are using the internet as a connection. Opinions vary.

It's only reliant on the internet as amateurs have allowed it to be such and not pushed back on Icom and Yaesu to allow for network interconnection without a gateway to their servers. All DMR repeaters are configured to allow interconnection via IP connection without relying on external infrastructure or databases. NXDN is the exact same way. P25 typically needs some sort of server acting as a controller but still, not reliant on external infrastructure. Then you start arguing the IP connection does not mean internet (intranet but not internet) and have to start educating the differences between WAN/MAN/CAN/LAN/PAN and how routes work.

However, it is all or nothing.

Only Yeasu makes C4FM radios at this time.

It's not all or nothing in real world application. Just like talking on a cell phone in an area with weak coverage, starts missing syllables here and there and then it cuts out. It's not the sounds perfect and then suddenly gone that people often claim. Yes the drop off from missing syllables to gone is much quicker but in consideration at the point you typically begin having issues with FEC failing to keep up your analog signal is already nearing 15 dB SINAD or less. It's just a different method of understanding how weak signals come across with digital protocols compared to analog FM.

Yaesu is not the only manufacturer of C4FM radios. C4FM is a modulation scheme, not a protocol. It is literally Continuous 4FSK on a FM carrier...P25 and NXDN both use C4FM though the deviation levels and underlying protocols are different. Yaesu's insistence on calling Fusion C4FM is not only confusing but downright misleading to the amateur community as it is not the only C4FM protocol in use by the amateur community but it is the most recent to be introduced.

As for which digital protocol to choose...go with whatever is most popular or common around your AO. If Wires-X connected repeaters are abundant, go with a Fusion radio. If D*Star is most abundant, go with that. If it's DMR, go that route. Go with whatever will get the most use by you and if you want to branch out and see what's going on in other protocols...hotspots are an option to dip the toes into that protocol before jumping into purchasing a radio that will support that protocol.

 

[prcguy]

I would not specifically get a Yaesu Fusion radio unless there are useable Fusion repeaters within reach of a handleld where you operate most. It could be there are none and DMR or DSTAR are more popular in your area.

Otherwise the Fusion and DSTAR formats only allow one conversation at a time and if you connect your handheld through a Fusion repeater to a distant location you just hogged the entire repeater for the duration of your conversation. DMR on the other had can have two independent conversations going on and its common to have one be a local area only and the other can connect to distant repeaters, etc.

With that I have a Yaesu Fusion repeater along with a few others and the only Fusion traffic through that repeater has been from a couple of friends who I bought radios for and gave to them. My P25 repeaters get much more use.

 

[iowabassplayer]

It's only reliant on the internet as amateurs have allowed it to be such

Yes that's technically true - you can run DMR/Fusion/DStar simplex all day long and there are HF nets out there for those protocols. Thats not the typical use case when someone initially thinks of amateur digital voice.

 

[N4KVE]

The Inrico device does not communicate on ham frequencies via RF. It simply connects to the internet. Here in SE Florida most DMR repeaters are not linked to anything. Just like analog radios, they simply transmit on amateur radio frequencies allowing local hams to talk to each other using a DMR repeater. There’s more to life than talking to people on a computer.

 

[k6cpo]

Lots of folks love digital voice, lots of folks say it "isn't real ham radio" because you are using the internet as a connection. Opinions vary.

It's still possible to communicate without the use of the internet. My club has three Fusion® repeaters up and working, none of which have an internet connection. We use digital on them all the time and we also hold a periodic digital simplex net. I have a DMR radio (AnyTone 868) I don't use very often, but it's possible to communicate through repeaters without the internet and work simplex with it, but the implementation is more complex than with Fusion®.

 

[belvdr]

Yes that's technically true - you can run DMR/Fusion/DStar simplex all day long and there are HF nets out there for those protocols. Thats not the typical use case when someone initially thinks of amateur digital voice.

Pre-pandemic, a friend and I used D-Star to communicate via simplex, because analog was simply unusable. It may not be typical, but doesn't mean it isn't doable. Another example on non-typical use is D-Star on HF. I never tried that, though.

 

[merlin]

There is a fusion system just a bit too far for me to use and the only other DMR site only switches to digital a short while during nets.
My radio won't transmit unless a short time there is a beakon.

 

[n9upc]

I have considered digital radio from the outside looking in for a few years. I never quite understood the point. I've got a Network Radio (Inrico T320) and I don't know how different it is from DMR, DSTAR, Fusion, etc...

I do like Yaesu products so Wires-X seems a logical entry point. But I still have no real understanding of the "why" of digital radio. Any tips and guidance would be much appreciated.

This is one aspect of radio that YouTube doesn't seem to help (me) as much. My very basic understanding is that it's sort of similar to Echolink/IRLP. Am I incorrect?

It seems like another way to connect with hams all over, yet is less susceptible to propagation challenges. Is this just another naive assumption?

I may pick up a Yaesu FT5DR on a black Friday deal.

Please feel free to reach out to me for any questions or discussion on Yaesu Sysyem Fusion. I have used ALL digital modes and I am a Fusion System Expert.

I can be reached at j.kruk@yaesu.com

 

[KQ7D]

Please feel free to reach out to me for any questions or discussion on Yaesu Sysyem Fusion. I have used ALL digital modes and I am a Fusion System Expert.

I can be reached at j.kruk@yaesu.com

Thank you. I have paused for a bit on Digital modes, but I will keep this great offer in mind.