KAG0353 462.675 NY

[billme]

How does this repeter continue to operate using NO PL ( OPEN INPUT PL No one can put up another repeter with out interferance from this machine. Due to its open pl.

 

[DaveNF2G]

The way to avoid interference between repeaters is by physical separation, not PL. PL only masks signals, it does not make them go away.

Also, if it has open input, then how is it interfering with anything?

 

[alcahuete]

Also, if it has open input, then how is it interfering with anything?

When somebody keys a repeater with a PL protected input, for example, the one with just carrier squelch would open up as well, causing interference. Even using a receive PL on the radio (assuming the repeater broadcasts one) wouldn't fix the issue, since the output of the open repeater is still going to mix with all the other signals.

 

[Hans13]

I would think that FM capture effect might mitigate some of that, depending on how far away the carrier squelch repeater is from the operator. But, yeah, I could see it as being a problem.

 

[Hans13]

How does this repeter continue to operate using NO PL ( OPEN INPUT PL No one can put up another repeter with out interferance from this machine. Due to its open pl.

Has anyone wanting to put up another repeater on 675 in the area attempted to coordinate with KAG0353?

 

[alcahuete]

I would think that FM capture effect might mitigate some of that, depending on how far away the carrier squelch repeater is from the operator. But, yeah, I could see it as being a problem.

Yeah, I'm not familiar with this specific repeater at all, but the exact same issue was happening with a 2m ham repeater in the Socal area for years. They finally put a PL on the darn thing. It was a fairly high level repeater too.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Then the repeater is experiencing co-channel interference. It is not interfering with anything.

 

[alcahuete]

Then the repeater is experiencing co-channel interference. It is not interfering with anything.

Correct. Adding a PL would alleviate that, at least a little.

 

[amphibian]

There's no FCC rule that state one "Must Have or Use" ctcss/dcs codes of any kind on any channel or when using a repeater. If there is a repeater in your area that is CS operated then use it, or, go put your own repeater up and do so using another GMRS frequency pair.

 

[Hans13]

If there is a repeater in your area that is CS operated then use it

Unless it is a private repeater.

 

[DaveNF2G]

Without some kind of public directory, like the ARRL Repeater Directory for ham repeaters, there is no way to know if a repeater is open or private until you try to access it.

 

[Hans13]

Without some kind of public directory, like the ARRL Repeater Directory for ham repeaters, there is no way to know if a repeater is open or private until you try to access it.

MyGMRS can give some information.

However, it almost seems to me that private repeater is the default in Part 95 anyway since, in order for a station to be shared, "All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a written agreement to be kept as part of the station records." That doesn't work if they aren't private by default.

I may try to reach the owner of an unknown repeater on that repeater itself but I do not use someone's GMRS repeater without permission; either verbal or something like public notice on MyGMRS database.

Of course, that "sharing arrangement" in the stations records could simply be, "This station is open to all licensed GMRS operators for use within regulations and without charge." Still, without some contact with the owner or public notice, how would someone know?

Amphibian had written, "If there is a repeater in your area that is CS operated then use it". I disagree as the repeater might be private.

§ 95.1705 Individual licenses required; eligibility; who may operate; cooperative use.
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(f)Cooperative use of GMRS stations.GMRS licensees may share the use of their stations with other persons eligible in the GMRS, subject to the conditions and limitations in this paragraph.

(1) The GMRS station to be shared must be individually owned by the licensee, jointly owned by the participants and the licensee, leased individually by the licensee, or leased jointly by the participants and the licensee.

(2) The licensee must maintain access to and control over all stations authorized under its license.

(3) A station may be shared only:

(i) Without charge;

(ii) On a non-profit basis, with contributions to capital and operating expenses including the cost of mobile stations and paging receivers prorated equitably among all participants; or

(iii) On a reciprocal basis, i.e., use of one licensee's stations for the use of another licensee's stations without charge for either capital or operating expenses.

(4) All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a written agreement to be kept as part of the station records.

 

[amphibian]

"(2) The licensee must maintain access to and control over all stations authorized under its license." it has been assumed for many years by FCC and many others in the two-way field that in order for one to have control over his/her GMRS stations they must have a way to control the access to and use of any said repeater owned by the licensee and that assumption has been by the use of CTCSS and/or DCS otherwise that station is considered accessible to the general public for use. Also, many GMRS repeaters listed on different sites say that the "travel tone" is for use by anyone traveling thru...so does that automatically make them public or private? That has been a question for many a year.

In addition, not everyone wants their repeater listed on some site for people to see. At our usa gmrs dot com site, and I'm sure it's the same as other like sites that list GMRS repeaters, we don't always show listings of all repeaters known to us to be in use. Many owners of GMRS repeaters send us their information to pass on to those inquiring about specific locations but not to list on our website as available, private or otherwise. Since FCC does not require the coordinating of, or public listing of, GMRS repeaters people don't have to list their repeaters anywhere and because of that many choose not to.

My remark as to "if it is CS operated then use it" comes from experience that those that do not secure it with a PL code of some sort (or other security of access) do so for it to be used by whomever with the thinking that as the owner they will automatically assume responsibility if there are issues or problems. Smart --- Not Smart --- only time will tell I guess. I know all of mine are secured and require a certain type of coded access in order to gain use of them.

 

[Hans13]

Some post on places like MyGMRS so that anyone else looking to put up a repeater in the area could take that information into account ahead of time.

I agree that it isn't smart to run a private repeater without a tone but the fact remains that the regulations do not require a tone for the repeater to be private. If someone was accessing another repeater in the area on the same pair and it just happened to also access the private repeater, that would be the no tone repeater owner's problem to fix. According to the regulations, you can only transmit on the repeater inputs to access a repeater. If the only repeater on that pair is a repeater with no tone then you were obviously trying to access that repeater. If you used a tone to access a repeater in that same area and it brought up the private no tone repeater then, again, it is the no tone repeater owner's problem.

But, no. It is not proper to just start using someone else's repeater without permission. That can come in the form of a posting on a place such as MyGMRS or otherwise. To access a repeater in a very limited fashion for the sole purpose of asking for permission wouldn't be a big issue for most but there is always the ULS to find a repeater owner's mailing address if the repeater is IDing according to regulations (in the case of multiple call signs accessing a repeater) or listening for the single call sign being used on a repeater for one family.

I think you are ignoring a part of the regulations; "(4) All sharing arrangements must be conducted in accordance with a written agreement to be kept as part of the station records."