Kansas Statewide Digital update

[KAA951]

I have heard this from two different sources within KDOT's radio service (which builds, owns and maintains the state radio system) so I consider it fact rather than rumor!

KDOT is planning to build out the new APCO-25 digital wide-area trunking system following the KHP troop areas. Under the new plan, Troop F, headquartered in Wichita and covering the southcentral portion of the state, will be built out and placed in service first. The next area to be built out will be Troop B, headquarterd in Topeka and covering the northeast portion of the state. From there the plan goes on to activate Troop C in Salina, etc.

I have heard some wild speculation about timelines but until I can nail it down to facts I will let them simmer!

As a side note- KDOT just got a shipment of Bearcat 8 trunked scanners that they will start installing in KHP cars. Other scanners in use by the KHP are Bearcat 780XLTs (mainly in the KC, Lawrence and Topeka areas due to the multiple trunking systems used there) and Radio Shack first generation trunk-trackers. They also just got several pallets of the new Bearcat 898T in- but are returning them as they are too large to install in the patrol cars.

 

[Buckskinner33]

Well Then its official!!!

I shopping for a new scanner! Thank god my wife likes to listen to the scanner... That way It wont be a hard sale to justify my expenses!!!

 

[Buckskinner33]

PS

Just what kind of wild ideas are they having on the time line ?... If you would be so kind as to tell us.

 

[rick521]

Does anyone have any new information about the state system?

 

[mancow]

They hold a 700 Mhz licence according to FCC files.

Has anyone found any new control channels active yet?

Also, I wonder why would they be buying all of those analog scanners if it's a P25 system.


mancow

 

[rick521]

The scanners are so KHP can monitor all of us non-800 state system agencies.

 

[mancow]

It just seemed more practical to go digital so the scanner could at least track their own system.
Then again, I suppose they figure they don't need to listen to themselves.





Man, I wish someone had some more info on the system plans.

 

[rick521]

It just seemed more practical to go digital so the scanner could at least track their own system.
Then again, I suppose they figure they don't need to listen to themselves.

They do listen to themselves on their own radios. Our Sheriff radios both mobile and handheld are multi-channel and scan, there fore all I need a scanner for is to listen to other agencies.

 

[Buckskinner33]

I was talking to some fire fighters from WFD and One of them was carrying a new XTS-5000 in a bright yellow case. He was saying that they was going to be the first to be on the new system and that they are getting all new radios. They next department would be the Water dept. He said a few supervisors already had there radios but budget was dictating who gets thirs first.

Now I looked at the specs for this and I was wondering how does this radio work on our current type 2 system now when the specs shows that it doesnt support it unless they have somthing up now. Maybe I'm reading this wrong. But never the less, he was using an XTS-5000 radio.

Here are the specs from motorola:

The new top of the line XTS 5000 portable radio is ready and equipped to meet the needs of demanding environments.

The most interoperable radio of its class, the XTS 5000 radio is an incredibly versatile Public Safety portable designed for mission-critical APCO Project 25 users. It's Motorola's newest maximum performance two-way radio that is equipped to meet your demands as well as provide a peace of mind with secure communications.

Feature Overview

Highlights of the XTS 5000

Channels - 16–48 channels — Model I, 512 channels — Model II & III

Power - 3W—700/800MHz, 6W—VHF, 1—5W—UHF, 2—5W—UHF

Battery Life (based on 5/5/90 duty cycle) - 8 hours — Ultra High Capacity NiCD, 8 hours — Standard Ultra High Capacity NiMH, 8 hours — Lithium Ion, 8 hours — Ultra High Capacity NiCD Rugged

Keypad - Model I — No, Model II — Yes, limited, Model III — Yes, full

Display - Model I — No, Model II — Yes, 2 line icons plus 4 line 12 characters per line, Model III — Yes, 2 line icons plus 4 line 12 characters per line

Coverage - Programming Software allows adjustable power output for varying coverage

Mil Spec - 810 C, D, E and F, Rugged radio models are available

Dimensions H x W x L (with standard battery) - 12.72” x 2.44” x 1.83” (323.01 mm x 61.98 mm x 46.48 mm)

Weight (with standard battery) - 12.5oz (354.38 g) without battery, 21.6oz (612.36 g) with Ultra High Capacity NiCD battery

Frequency - 700/800MHz, UHF Range I, UHF Range II, VHF

XTS 5000 Features

System Configurations - The XTS 5000 portable radio is capable of the following: ASTRO 25 Digital Trunking, ASTRO Analog and Digital Trunking, and Analog and Digital Conventional.

Enhanced Frequency Spectrum Utilization - The XTS 5000 portable radio is designed to offer multiple frequency band solutions for perfect system optimization in congested urban areas or wider country regions. Motorola currently offers the 700/800 MHz dual band (764-870MHz), the VHF band (136-174 MHz), UHF Range 1 band (380-470 MHz), and UHF Range 2 band (450-520 MHz).

Integrated Voice and Data - The XTS 5000 radio is capable of further enhancements such as Wireless Application Protocol (WAP) for database management applications, Alphanumeric Text Service, and External IP data via the high speed USB or RS232 ports.

Enhanced Encryption - The security features of the XTS 5000 radio include Type I, III, and IV encryption. This radio also supports Advanced Digital Privacy (ADP) software encryption.

Enhanced Audio Features - The XTS 5000 features improve audio quality with the Noise Reduction Software and Audio Gain Control.

Ruggedized Models - Ruggedized Models available in Standard Black or "Public Safety Yellow" housing.

Surveillance Mode -

Surveillance Accessories -

Over the Air Rekeying (OTAR) -

Smart PTT -

One-Touch Feature -

Database Management Applications (WAP) -

Time/Date -

Caller ID -

Interchangeable Display Labels - Interchangeable Display Labels for Easy Radio Group Differentiation.

Windows-based Customer Programming Software (CPS) - Windows-based Customer Programming Software (CPS)

 

[rick521]

Wow, what a loaded post JD. Lets break this down and see if we can figure anything out. I am not sure where to start so I will just follow your post. Please remember I am not a technical person so you will get no technical answers. Also I have questions.

1. XTS-5000. Although this is a very advanced radio, to get from the old to the new you must have a radio to make the transition. It would be too costly to throw out the old and put in a brand new system. I suspect the specifications you list from Motorola are intended to emphasis the newest most advance features. Someday down the road you may use these features, today you just program the radio to work with what you have now. In Salina all of our Law Enforcement, Fire/EMS base station are now capable of being programmed P25, we don’t have any radio’s (mobile/handheld) that a P25 capable. So we just program the base stations conventional and go on with our work.

2. WFD Fire Fighter said they were going to first on the new system. Do you know what “New System” he is talking about? I thought the next big improvement for communications was a new dispatch center?

3. WFD gets radios first, then the Water Department. What happened to Law
Enforcement? It really seems strange that Law Enforcement is not the first to convert to a “New System”. Is this being dictated by budget? Does Law Enforcement have a different “funding source” that is being used?

Well enough for now, lets see where this leads.

 

[Buckskinner33]

Well, When the Old system was new 15 or 20 yrs ago they sort of went the same way. WFD and Water did get the new radio first. The reason why was because of money! FD and EMS is LIFE support, It weighs in on that fact alone. Water is also in that catagory as well but since they generate alot of income, the have the finances to cover the cost up front!

PD came in after the bugs was worked out...I remember the day they did it... I thought my scanner was broke...it seemed like it just got quite with a few transmission here and there and then nothing! At that time we used the old 400 MHz UHF and 150 MHz VHF freqs.

So based on past experiences I am assuming they will go that route again. Fire / EMS, Water, then Law. The rest of the agencies will follow suit.

I wont see anything for a longtime if thats the case. My department is souley based on the Alcohal and Tobacco revenue generated. We do see some money from property tax but thats only after it is put into the general funds and then divided.

Its a quality of life issue and not a neccesity of life. Get it?

 

[rick521]

OK, with the history lesson, it makes sense what they are looking at. Do you know where they intend to go? Will Wichita/Sedgwick stay on they on system or are they thinking about getting on with the state?

 

[Buckskinner33]

Yes they are going with the state recomendation. I made a post from the eagle beacon on a story they did on the center they was looking into building back in Febuary.
I thought for a long time that the new facility was on K-96 Highway and Hillside because of a new tower going up.
The new dispatch center is on Main an Elm st. across from Fire Station #1 and the old Red Cross building. There is talk of it being a huge call center and housing a lot dispatchers for multiple departments and agencies.

There are a few other guys on here who used to work for SCEM who are more up to date on it then I am. Hopefully they might chime in on this and add some info.

 

[Buckskinner33]

Heres a pick of the new radios being used

 

[rick521]

Thans for the pictures. Anyone else know whats going on in SCEM communications please post and bring us up to date.

 

[Buckskinner33]

The new dispatch center is on Main an Elm st. across from Fire Station #1 and the old Red Cross building.

It not on Elm St it somthing else 1 block south of murdock...

 

[Buckskinner33]

Rick, Heres is the first Story I read from USA today on the rebanding issue that was started in 2003. It has some issue to this thread.

Plan to clear the air for police radios hits snag
By Paul Davidson, USA TODAY
A proposed swap of airwaves to cut cell phone interference with dozens of police and fire radio systems nationwide has been held up by a less complex proposal from others in the industry.
The rival proposals have vexed and divided the staff of the Federal Communications Commission as few issues have, in part because each plan would in some ways benefit the party proposing it.

The impasse threatens to delay resolution of a problem that has been hampering emergency response capabilities since the mid-1990s.

The FCC appeared headed toward approval of the airwave swap — proposed last December by Nextel Communications and a coalition of public-safety agencies — until Motorola and a group of wireless companies stepped in with an alternative plan last month.

The root of the interference problem is that frequencies used by public safety agencies, Nextel and other mobile radio services are interlaced. As a result, the far more numerous antenna towers Nextel uses for its cell phone service sometimes drown out public-safety radios, resulting in "dead spots" in coverage in several dozen cities, including Seattle and Miami.

In fall 2001, Nextel first proposed giving up spectrum that would allow creating an interference-free public safety block. In trade, Nextel would get contiguous airwaves in a band now reserved for satellite phone services. Nextel agreed to pay $850 million toward costs for public safety and private carriers to reprogram equipment or buy new gear.

But mobile phone carriers say the plan unfairly hands Nextel prime spectrum that otherwise could be sold at auction by the FCC for billions of dollars.

Critics of the Nextel plan also say the spectrum swap would disrupt about half the nation's 2,200 public-safety agencies, even though interference incidents are isolated. In addition, it would take nearly four years to complete, and it might not fully eliminate the interference.

Last month, Motorola, which makes most public-safety radios, told the FCC it has developed a device that can filter out Nextel's signals while still receiving public-safety transmissions. "We think there's a technical solution," says Motorola's Steve Sharkey.

Public-safety agencies can get the device when they upgrade to new radios, which could take years, or they can retrofit existing radios. A group of wireless firms backs that plan in tandem with stronger interference protections.

But the Association of Public-Safety Communications Officials calls the proposal "reactive" to interference events. And it's unclear who would pay for the upgrades under the alternative plan.

"You've got to fix the underlying problem," says Nextel's Larry Krevor. He says interference is more widespread than critics say, and it's growing. He says only a swap can cleanly address all the causes.

Some observers suggest Motorola may be opposing a swap because that could open its market to rival radio makers. But others say Motorola would benefit from equipment upgrades in either case.

 

[Buckskinner33]

Rick, Here is a story from 2003 in which the re-banding issue was brought up and what Nextel and Motorola are doing to fix the problem. It has some relevance to this thread.

Plan to clear the air for police radios hits snag
By Paul Davidson, USA TODAY
A proposed swap of airwaves to cut cell phone interference with dozens of police and fire radio systems nationwide has been held up by a less complex proposal from others in the industry.
The rival proposals have vexed and divided the staff of the Federal Communications Commission as few issues have, in part because each plan would in some ways benefit the party proposing it.

The impasse threatens to delay resolution of a problem that has been hampering emergency response capabilities since the mid-1990s.

The FCC appeared headed toward approval of the airwave swap — proposed last December by Nextel Communications and a coalition of public-safety agencies — until Motorola and a group of wireless companies stepped in with an alternative plan last month.

The root of the interference problem is that frequencies used by public safety agencies, Nextel and other mobile radio services are interlaced. As a result, the far more numerous antenna towers Nextel uses for its cell phone service sometimes drown out public-safety radios, resulting in "dead spots" in coverage in several dozen cities, including Seattle and Miami.

In fall 2001, Nextel first proposed giving up spectrum that would allow creating an interference-free public safety block. In trade, Nextel would get contiguous airwaves in a band now reserved for satellite phone services. Nextel agreed to pay $850 million toward costs for public safety and private carriers to reprogram equipment or buy new gear.

But mobile phone carriers say the plan unfairly hands Nextel prime spectrum that otherwise could be sold at auction by the FCC for billions of dollars.

Critics of the Nextel plan also say the spectrum swap would disrupt about half the nation's 2,200 public-safety agencies, even though interference incidents are isolated. In addition, it would take nearly four years to complete, and it might not fully eliminate the interference.

Last month, Motorola, which makes most public-safety radios, told the FCC it has developed a device that can filter out Nextel's signals while still receiving public-safety transmissions. "We think there's a technical solution," says Motorola's Steve Sharkey.

Public-safety agencies can get the device when they upgrade to new radios, which could take years, or they can retrofit existing radios. A group of wireless firms backs that plan in tandem with stronger interference protections.

But the Association of Public-Safety Communications Officials calls the proposal "reactive" to interference events. And it's unclear who would pay for the upgrades under the alternative plan.

"You've got to fix the underlying problem," says Nextel's Larry Krevor. He says interference is more widespread than critics say, and it's growing. He says only a swap can cleanly address all the causes.

Some observers suggest Motorola may be opposing a swap because that could open its market to rival radio makers. But others say Motorola would benefit from equipment upgrades in either case.

 

[mancow]

Gotta love that, they now decide they can filter it. Of course, they couldn't give a S*** earlier when everyone was complaining.

What a load.

Anyway,
So, what's the deal? Does anyone know for sure when the first phases of the system will be turned on?


mancow

 

[rick521]

I don't know when Phase 1 is going to be turned on!!!

And what is Phase 1?