KCT234 Mount Mitchell

[n211cr]

I live quite a ways off in Owosso Michigan. Its in the center of the state. Off and on I receive a transmission that sounds like nothing more than a station identifier. It obviously says KCT234 Mount Mitchell North Carolina. I have done about all the research I can into it and I am never able to find a matching FCC record for a KCT234. The only frequencies I have programmed in to my scanner are 155.43, 154.74, 155.175, 154.355, and 154.19. I have even searched statewide for these frequencies in the database and still come up with nothing that is part of or even sounds like what could be this transmission. Can anyone else identify what this is maybe, or maybe they somehow got a new callsign but the repeater is still transmitting the old? Any help would be great. I will include a copy of what I am hearing, here it is cut off by something more local, but I have heard the complete transmission before. Thanks.

 

[FPO703]

I did a yahoo search for KCT234 and found this link

http://www.main.nc.us/MARC/YanceyFreq.html

look at 159.285

 

[n211cr]

That would seem to be it, the weird thing is I could not imagine the frequency being that far off, or shifting that much. I am using a scanner that is about 10 years old but I do not have problems with anything else. And to top it off FCC shows no record of that Callsign ever existing. Weird.

 

[pboy]

Hello Owosso!

I live quite a ways off in Owosso Michigan. Its in the center of the state. Off and on I receive a transmission that sounds like nothing more than a station identifier. It obviously says KCT234 Mount Mitchell North Carolina. I have done about all the research I can into it and I am never able to find a matching FCC record for a KCT234. The only frequencies I have programming in to my scanner are 155.43, 154.74, 155.175, 154.355, and 154.19. I have even searched statewide for these frequencies in the database and still come up with nothing that is part of or even sounds like what could be this transmission. Can anyone else identify what this is maybe, or maybe they somehow got a new callsign but the repeater is still transmitting the old? Any help would be great. I will include a copy of what I am hearing, here it is cut off by something more local, but I have heard the complete transmission before. Thanks.

wx4cbh or jeffmulter from this forum should be able to assist you with this one.

Sounds like either NC Wildlife or NC Forestry. Don't know why KCT234 is untraceable.

By the way, Mt. Mitchell peaks out at 6,600 feet.

 

[Watchman76]

Kct 234

This is the N.C. Wildlife repeater on Mt. Mitchell, been there a long time. - Dave

 

[n211cr]

Any ideas why it would not be found in the FCC database, or why I would be receiving it so far off from whats listed. My nearest frequency that is scanned is almost 4mhz away. Thanks for the info.

 

[pboy]

Any ideas why it would not be found in the FCC database, or why I would be receiving it so far off from whats listed. My nearest frequency that is scanned is almost 4mhz away. Thanks for the info.

You never see what frequency in your scanner the transmission comes in on?

 

[n211cr]

I can double check it, it is running from my house in owosso. I am currently away at school. I either catch it live via a stream through windows media encoder, or by listening to recordings. I would have to lock it on to each channel for a few days at a time then listen back over to see if I had received it again or happen to be listening live while I am right there. So out of those 5 I do not know off hand. I can guarentee that there are no other frequencies programmed into the scanner.

 

[pboy]

Are any of those frequencies repeaters?

Just interested in what the input frequencies are if any are repeaters.

Where in MI do your channels originate?

 

[n211cr]

Shiawassee County Michigan, The only one that I know of that does have a repeater is 154.83 output is 155.43, the rest are simplex or contain the same in/out as above. Even if there were other repeaters for the frequencies I have I doubt that they are reaching into the 158 - 159 range.

 

[CCHLLM]

I concur that it's NC Wildlife/SBI because that is exactly the phrase sequence used to ID the Wildlife/SBI xmtrs. Now then, after the solar activities of the last few days, I wouldn't discount that it might have been on the control freq and the directional antenna pointed in your direction, though I don't know if that is now defunct due to the sites being put on the digital microwave. Could be that it has not yet been switched over, or it's still up until other sites that use that control path have been switched over to the micro. The system control point is Raleigh, with a combination of microwave sites with direct control at co-located sites, and microwave sites linked to control stations that are directed toward sites with no microwave. I guess anything's possible since I heard Wilmington's 800 system off and on for 30 minutes or so here in Winston-Salem, and Horry County, SC's VHF county fire system for about 20 minutes, and those are both about a 200 mile jog.

 

[n211cr]

Yeah it sounds possible. I noticed it the first time a few weeks ago. Its rare but it has to be the 3rd of 4th time, and considering the amount of time I listen to it, I am sure it has occured more times. Also I have noticed that I hear it when the distant transmissions that I usually get come in crystal clear along with some others. So the solar factor may play a role. Thanks.

 

[CCHLLM]

Just went to the state comm database and KCT234 does indeed appear, good until 2014. It's located on Clingman's Peak on the Black Mtn ridge. The elevation is 6634 feet, it's the south peak of what a lot of people refer to as Mt Mitchell, but Mitchell is the center peak, so go figger. The frequency is listed to NC Wildlife Resources and it's one of the 159 freqs and I've already forgotten which one it was. Who knows, the xmtr could be emitting spurs, but you'd think somebody closer to home woulda noticed and complained. Then again, with everybody running PL/DPL, who would notice unless the offender PL/DPL was the same as the offended system?

 

[n211cr]

If I get a chance I will try to determine what freq I am picking it up on and maybe try to test my scanner for somehow picking up a transmission on other frequencies. Thanks for your help. Even with all of this the one odd thing is how FCC does not show that license, that was the easiest and first thing I always do. Thanks again.

 

[jeffmulter]

Chad,

Can you identify the OTHER agency on the wav file you posted ?

I have a feeling you're hearing the communications via a pathway that takes it through two repeaters ... one near Cleveland, and a second closer to your home location.

That second agency may be the one at the tail-end of your recording. What you're hearing is the Wildlife Resources I-D passing through the repeater, then the female dispatcher keys up to speak, and overrides the Wildlife message.

I'll even go "out on a limb," and guess that the INPUT frequency for that repeater may be 154.220 MHz / 186.2 Hz tone.

I'm running late for work this morning, but I had to say something ... I enjoy your type of questions. I will add some more information late this evening or tomorrow morning, but would appreciate it if you have a chance to comment about other "foreign" agencies you might have heard via the streaming audio in the past.


Jeff Multer
Fort Mill, S.C.

 

[n211cr]

What I will have to do it take and listen over a few other files I may have, this is the only one where I have heard the transmission get stepped on by another. But you might also know that that will be a distant station. I thought about trying to go through and identify by voice. I can always take and hookup and record single channels at a time and see what I come up with. I'll let you know

 

[n211cr]

Ok well I checked a few things its definently being repeated, it would seem that it would have had a 173.8 tone the entire time, you can easily see where atleast 2 different 173.8 tones are shown, and you can also see seperate "mic clicks" The last tone before it ends is a very clean clear tone. Also mainly in Shiawassee County here the tone most commonly used here is 173.8. But based on the way I only here it every now and again I could not imagine it is repeated that often otherwise this would have been something bought up before. I could be wrong with the 173.8 tone but it is very close.

 

[n211cr]

Forgot to Post the new file

This the one I was looking at the PL's from, also its a few weeks older and contains the complete transmission, no one else steps on them at all.

 

[n211cr]

Well I have done some looking around and it seems that there is a repeater in WV that is 159.285 In and output, along with CSQ. Virginia has a CSQ showing output on 159.285 not sure on an input. Does anyone know the PL for the originating transmission, if there is one. I know 186.2 was mentioned before and there is another repeater in OH with an input of 159.285 and a PL of 186.2 and an output of 154.22 but I am unable to see where that would go from there. I will try to nail down what frequency it is coming from if I can.

 

[jeffmulter]

Good morning, Chad, and anyone else following this thread.

Some loose ends ... The Wildlife Resources repeater on Mount Mitchell (sometimes referred to as Clingmans Peak) actually outputs with two tones on 159.285 MHz. The central dispatch in Raleigh uses 159.285 / 186.2 on this site, and units talk back to Raleigh through this site on 159.285 / 210.7 Hz.

Raleigh listens on the 210.7 side. If units want to go unit-to-unit, they both use the 186.2 side, which frees up Raleigh from having to listen to the chit-chat. Keep in mind the dispatcher is Raleigh is monitoring 15 ? sites around the state.

I believe the Burlington site, in central N.C., also uses 159.285 / 173.8, and it's likely an eastern N.C. site may also use the same for a dispatch or unit channel.

The input on the Raleigh side of the Mount Mitchell site is 151.325 / 186.2. I presume - but can't confirm - that the unit side input is 151.325 / 210.7 Hz.

I believe Raleigh links to the Mount Mitchell site via microwave, so you would not hear Raleigh on a fixed link VHF frequency giving the station I-Ds. WX4CBH knows more about these sites than I ever will, and might comment. Having gone to Mount Mitchell a few times, I can tell you the parking lot near the viewing tower at Mt Mitchell is a great place to monitor from .. dress warmly, though, and bring your own munchies.

The information I have, including the FCC database, doesn't seem to match Chad's, with regards to 159.285 use in West Virginia. In WV, the State of Maryland appears to have a simplex site licensed close to their border. WV is licensed for multiple sites on 159.2925 MHz. The Virginia licenses on 159.285 repeater out won't come into play, since we are looking for licensees using 159.285 as an input.

Yesterday, I alluded to ... and Chad also noted ... Tri-Community Fire Department in Huron County, Ohio, which has a couple of repeaters reportedly using 159.285 / 186.2 as the input, and 154.220 / 186.2 as the output. Huron County is just south of Lake Erie, which provides a nice water pathway to central Michigan (conditions on the Great Lakes are often good-enough to support enhancements on 800 MHz).

Like Chad, I could not come up with a pathway from Huron County to Owosso, Mi (Chad's home) that would take into account 154.220 as an input, and one of Chad's five frequencies as an output ... much less any solid tone information.

Keep in mind that the end source might not be close to Owosso. It could be in the opposite direction from Huron County, Ohio. It only needs to be audible when band conditions are enhanced. I have that same situation here, near Charlotte, being able to listen to Virginia State Police (to my north) via a public works repeater in Columbia, S.C. (to my south).

For me, another aspect that clouds identifying RF pathways is the proximity of Owosso / Shiawassee County to Canada. I am not familiar with bandplan use by Canadian agencies close to the U.S. border, or if there is any databases available online similar to our FCC db.

This morning, I did some additional information checking.

Chad's home county, Shiawassee County, Mi, dispatches fire calls on 154.355 MHz. Although the county does not have a repeater on the channel, one of the fire departments (Perry) is licensed for a repeater on the frequency. The input is 156.015 MHz (RadioReference has some bad information in the db, in this regard, showing an old licence / deleted callsign for 156.015).

Even more interesting is that Burn Township / Bancroft Fire Dept in Shiawassee Co is licensed for a repeater on 154.115 MHz. Guess what the input frequency is ? Time's up - it's 159.285 MHz.

So, I gotta ask, Chad ... any chance you have their repeater channel programmed in the scanner ? Or, any chance that repeater is sometimes patched into county fire dispatch - or 154.190, which appears to be a secondary channel for a couple of the county fire departments, including Owosso ?

I was very tempted to call the dispatch at Tri-Community Joint Fire District on Thursday, and ask them whether they had been hearing the NC WRC I-Ds recently (after explaining why I was contacting them, and making sure I was on a non-emergency phone line). For anyone who might want to call, the number is (419) 752-3333 .

Based on what I found this morning, I believe the Burn Township license is somehow involved in what Chad is hearing, and look forward to reading your comments. I would also be interested in the PL tone reading you would get if you were able to tape the input on the Burn repeater. Hopefully, you have some contacts within your county's fire service who can add some clarity to the discussion.


Jeff Multer
Fort Mill, S.C.