Kennedy Peak Fire/George Washington NF

Radar412

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I was able to do some close to the scene searching for frequencies in use during this fire which is a peak in the Massanuten Range in Virginia. I did find most of the ones in use which are listed below. This was also in hope of discovering any additional information on the changes to the overall GW Jefferson Natl Forest radio system. I did find some other traffic unrelated to the Kennedy Peak fire which was helpful. I also have those listed:
166.5625 region 8 fire, lots of ground traffic
166.800 A/G 6 in use with helo 2HX
167.375 division Alpha ground traffic ( I know this is supposed to be an A/G normally however it was definitely ground traffic)
169.125 division Charlie ground traffic ( same note above)
167.1375 crew channel with related fire traffic
168.8 unknown local traffic
168.675 unknown local traffic
171.525 multiple P25 repeater outputs (Great North & Big Mtn & a local on scene portable repeater as of this morning handling fire traffic)
169.950 unrelated fire traffic ; this is the Elliot Knob repeater out (new frequency on an existing comm site)
It looks like this forest is now operating its day to day ops in P25 mode at least on the various repeaters.
I will post confirmed finds in the database once I get done doing some more searching, hopefully this fall.
 
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Paysonscanner

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I was able to do some close to the scene searching for frequencies in use during this fire which is a peak in the Massanuten Range in Virginia. I did find most of the ones in use which are listed below. This was also in hope of discovering any additional information on the changes to the overall GW Jefferson Natl Forest radio system. I did find some other traffic unrelated to the Kennedy Peak fire which was helpful. I also have those listed:
166.5625 region 8 fire, lots of ground traffic
166.800 A/G 6 in use with helo 2HX
167.375 division Alpha ground traffic ( I know this is supposed to be an A/G normally however it was definitely ground traffic)
169.125 division Charlie ground traffic ( same note above)
167.1375 crew channel with related fire traffic
168.8 unknown local traffic
168.675 unknown local traffic
171.525 multiple P25 repeater outputs (Great North & Big Mtn & a local on scene portable repeater as of this morning handling fire traffic)
169.950 unrelated fire traffic ; this is the Elliot Knob repeater out (new frequency on an existing comm site)
It looks like this forest is now operating its day to day ops in P25 mode at least on the various repeaters.
I will post confirmed finds in the database once I get done doing some more searching, hopefully this fall.
Great report. Realize that none of those frequencies assigned to the fire itself are not used day to day for initial attack on fires. Once the fire goes into extended attack NIFC assigns frequencies. When I get some time I will look at the frequencies and how they are assigned in the air to ground plan (national).
 

BigLebowski

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Good info!

George Washington NF and Jefferson NF have both been P25 for 2-3 years on their repeater sites with analog simplex in use as well. Try 169.1875 (VAF Tac) for simplex comms as well.

The 169.950 is a new(er) repeater output and I have been trying to figure out of its linked to 171.525/171.575 or if it is a separate admin or fire net.

We speculate USFS LE has a new output as well. No reports of any 168.025 traffic in VA in quite a while.
 

Radar412

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replying to the previous responses, I have a few tones that I got from a couple days of searching. I'll post all of it in the database when I confirm a little bit more. As far as the 169. 950 repeater it is definitely a standalone, at the Elliot knob commsite. I did not hear it multi casting with 171. 525 over the last few days except when the VICC in Charlottesville multi selects all repeaters to give fire weather or to go in and out of service
 

Radar412

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I thought as much. About two months ago I was coming up I-81 South of Roanoke and heardtraffic on that same frequency oh, I think it was off the white top mountain or white mountain or something like that down close to the Mount Rogers National Recreation Area.
 

BigLebowski

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I've heard 169.950 NAC 526 in Roanoke, but I seem to recall a different NAC in use around Augusta county. All of the 171.525 and 171.575 sites have different NACs so it's best use F7E for receive or leave the scanner searching.
 

Paysonscanner

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I looked up the George Washington-Jefferson NF freq. plan in late Hubby's voluminous notebooks as well as regionwide freq assignments for R8.

166.5625 Now R8-R9 fire tactical. Western USFS regions usually assign at least 3 (R3, R4, R5) tacs. R2 has a single regional tac, so it's not surprising that R8 & R9 only have one. R8 had its own, 169.9000, but the 2019 allocations meant they had to stop using it, so they joined with R9 on the same freq.
166.8000 is national A/G 6 as you indicated. It is assigned to dispatch centers in Florida and Arkansas. It is obviously cleared for use in Virginia, so when NIFC assigned an extended attack AG freq, they used it.
167.3750 is national A/G 38. My note for 166.8000 applies here as well. Just because it is a national air ground freq., doesn't mean NIFC can't assign it for tac. It is assigned as an initial attack (IA) A/G for the John Day, Oregon dispatch center and in Louisiana too.
169.1250 Same situation as in the 2 freqs above. Nationally it is assigned for IA AG 60 to the Teton dispatch center (Wyoming, Phoenix DC, Taos DC and as A/G 88 with a 110.9 tx/rx tone for Silver City, New Mexico.
167.1375 is interesting as it is assigned to Shenandoah National Park as the input for portable repeaters in the park. The output is 173.6250, but can be used simplex as a tac w/o a repeater.
168.8000 I didn't find any reference to this in what I have.
168.6750 This is national A/G 71. Same note as previous applies.

169.1875 I found reference to this as "VA Fire." It meets the new NTIA allocation for simplex in the 166.5000 to 169.5000 (approximate) range.

I also note that Shenandoah NP has one of those common repeater input with individual outputs for each repeater. I remember my dear hubby telling me that many parks are using this. A voter selects the best signal at a given repeater then transmits this signal to every repeater. In topography where hearing only 1-2 repeaters at a time, having all the traffic broadcast over all the repeaters sounds like a great way to have everyone hear everything. I think of a unit driving down a road or hiking on a trail and not having to worry about tones or NAC so do they just choose one channel on the radio and the radio has a voter in it to choose the best output signal to receive? Or is it more likely they choose a repeater based on location and if the output sounds bad they switch channels till they get it to sound good and if for some reason the input doesn't sound good to that repeater, but does on another one the whole network hears that signal. Sorry to be so wordy, I'm trying to keep track of each of my parents and can't concentrate all that well. No time to wordsmith!

The Shenandoah rpts listed are, NDRPTR, HOGBACK, BIG MTN, MILLERS, FORK MTN, LOFT MTN and BUCK MTN. They all have a NAC, in and out, of $4F9. This all needs to be confirmed before anyone makes a data submission. The pages I have are official and developed in 2013, 6 years old. The pages also list 167.1500 as a simplex for the park. An analog repeater named "SKYLAND" is also shown with 169.6875/165.6000 and in/out tone of 127.3. All of the parks analog freqs have the same in/out tone. Sorry to ramble, a post of this length involves being interrupted 4-5 times and getting up from the desk for each.
 

Radar412

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I just posted the following to the database for update. I thought I would put it here for everyone who has been following this thread in advance of it being updated.

NORTH NET REPEATERS
LOCATION OUTPUT NAC INPUT NAC
GREAT NORTH MTN REPEATER 171.525 455 164.1375 455
BARB GAP REPEATER 171.525 455 164.1375 3EA
BIG MTN REPEATER 171.525 4CE 164.1375 4CE
ELLIOTT KNOB REPEATER 169.950 526 UNKNOWN UNKNOWN
PORTABLE REPEATER 171.525 5EA 164.1375 5AE

ANALOG TRAFFIC UNKNOWN 171.525 164.1375
REPEATER

SOUTH NET REPEATERS
UNKNOWN LOCATION 171.575 555 UNKNOWN UNKNOWN
WHITETOP MOUNTAIN 169.950 526 UNKNOWN UNKNOWN

REGION 8 FIRE SIMPLEX 166.5625 166.5625
(analog)
 

Radar412

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I looked up the George Washington-Jefferson NF freq. plan in late Hubby's voluminous notebooks as well as regionwide freq assignments for R8.

166.5625 Now R8-R9 fire tactical. Western USFS regions usually assign at least 3 (R3, R4, R5) tacs. R2 has a single regional tac, so it's not surprising that R8 & R9 only have one. R8 had its own, 169.9000, but the 2019 allocations meant they had to stop using it, so they joined with R9 on the same freq.
166.8000 is national A/G 6 as you indicated. It is assigned to dispatch centers in Florida and Arkansas. It is obviously cleared for use in Virginia, so when NIFC assigned an extended attack AG freq, they used it.
167.3750 is national A/G 38. My note for 166.8000 applies here as well. Just because it is a national air ground freq., doesn't mean NIFC can't assign it for tac. It is assigned as an initial attack (IA) A/G for the John Day, Oregon dispatch center and in Louisiana too.
169.1250 Same situation as in the 2 freqs above. Nationally it is assigned for IA AG 60 to the Teton dispatch center (Wyoming, Phoenix DC, Taos DC and as A/G 88 with a 110.9 tx/rx tone for Silver City, New Mexico.
167.1375 is interesting as it is assigned to Shenandoah National Park as the input for portable repeaters in the park. The output is 173.6250, but can be used simplex as a tac w/o a repeater.
168.8000 I didn't find any reference to this in what I have.
168.6750 This is national A/G 71. Same note as previous applies.

169.1875 I found reference to this as "VA Fire." It meets the new NTIA allocation for simplex in the 166.5000 to 169.5000 (approximate) range.

I also note that Shenandoah NP has one of those common repeater input with individual outputs for each repeater. I remember my dear hubby telling me that many parks are using this. A voter selects the best signal at a given repeater then transmits this signal to every repeater. In topography where hearing only 1-2 repeaters at a time, having all the traffic broadcast over all the repeaters sounds like a great way to have everyone hear everything. I think of a unit driving down a road or hiking on a trail and not having to worry about tones or NAC so do they just choose one channel on the radio and the radio has a voter in it to choose the best output signal to receive? Or is it more likely they choose a repeater based on location and if the output sounds bad they switch channels till they get it to sound good and if for some reason the input doesn't sound good to that repeater, but does on another one the whole network hears that signal. Sorry to be so wordy, I'm trying to keep track of each of my parents and can't concentrate all that well. No time to wordsmith!

The Shenandoah rpts listed are, NDRPTR, HOGBACK, BIG MTN, MILLERS, FORK MTN, LOFT MTN and BUCK MTN. They all have a NAC, in and out, of $4F9. This all needs to be confirmed before anyone makes a data submission. The pages I have are official and developed in 2013, 6 years old. The pages also list 167.1500 as a simplex for the park. An analog repeater named "SKYLAND" is also shown with 169.6875/165.6000 and in/out tone of 127.3. All of the parks analog freqs have the same in/out tone. Sorry to ramble, a post of this length involves being interrupted 4-5 times and getting up from the desk for each.
Thanks for looking up what you have. I know the 167.1375 is now one of the 4 national crew frequencies for uncoordinated use by any of the organized fire crews. Each has their own PL assigned to them to use with it. The Shenandoad 169.6875 I havent heard anything on that in a significantly long period of time.
 

Paysonscanner

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Thanks for looking up what you have. I know the 167.1375 is now one of the 4 national crew frequencies for uncoordinated use by any of the organized fire crews. Each has their own PL assigned to them to use with it. The Shenandoad 169.6875 I havent heard anything on that in a significantly long period of time.
Thanks for this info! I don't have a lot of information for the Northeast and Southern GACC's or in USFS speak, R8 and R9.

Remember that 167.1375 is one of four new (as of the 2005 narrowbanding of the federal government) nationwide, all agency simplex or itinerant frequencies. NIFC or the natural resource agencies do not have an exclusive assignment of them. The restrictions on the use of the frequencies such as "National," "Primary," etc. no longer exist. They are now simply labeled as,

1 163.7125
2 168.6125
3 167.1375
4 172.6250

#4 does not meet the new 2019 allocation of the fed VHF band as it is in the repeater output range. It was assigned in 2005 and I would guess it is an exception to the 2019 NTIA allocation. That is, until it is changed and we should always watch for those.

The above 4 are added to the 168.3500 and 16.1000 in widespread use for tacticals on large fires. They are also nationwide, all agency itinerants.
 

Radar412

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Thanks for this info! I don't have a lot of information for the Northeast and Southern GACC's or in USFS speak, R8 and R9.

Remember that 167.1375 is one of four new (as of the 2005 narrowbanding of the federal government) nationwide, all agency simplex or itinerant frequencies. NIFC or the natural resource agencies do not have an exclusive assignment of them. The restrictions on the use of the frequencies such as "National," "Primary," etc. no longer exist. They are now simply labeled as,

1 163.7125
2 168.6125
3 167.1375
4 172.6250

#4 does not meet the new 2019 allocation of the fed VHF band as it is in the repeater output range. It was assigned in 2005 and I would guess it is an exception to the 2019 NTIA allocation. That is, until it is changed and we should always watch for those.

The above 4 are added to the 168.3500 and 16.1000 in widespread use for tacticals on large fires. They are also nationwide, all agency itinerants.
I definitely concur with all of that. I thought however the 173.625 was for federal itinerant repeater uae at one point. That may be why it's still in the itinerant category. Also, I tried to p.m. you but RR wouldn't let me. It was in reference to a thread over on the USFS r8 le thread.
 
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