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Kenwood NEXEDGE on an ICOM iDAS repeater?

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WayneH

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Has anyone been successful with using Kenwood NXDN equipment (in digital) over ICOM iDAS repeaters (IC-FR5000)? I was under the impression they both used the same format but no amount of programming change with either the mobile or the repeater can get the repeater to pass the format.

Unfortunately we built out our system with Kenwood NXDN and with thoughts of linking sites I thought I'd try the cheaper ICOM repeaters but it looks like it could be a no-go.
 

WayneH

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I called ICOM and the iDAS repeaters do 6.25 only. This is versus Kenwoods that do 12.5 and 6.25.

No problems with aliasing, encryption, etc. Other than having to run 6.25 you wouldn't see a vendor difference.
 

tc792

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Both Kenwood and Icom NXDN repeaters will operate in 12.5 and 6.25. However the 12.5 is analog and the 6.25 must be digital.
I haven't done it, but you shouldn't experience any problems using Kenwood Nexedge radios on a Icom IDAS repeater and vise-versa, as long as you are using it in a conventional system.
 

bob_c_89431

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I've got an Icom rptr in the field that is passing Kenwood digital with no problem.
Unless things changed in the past 8 mos or so, the Icom rptr is only digital on 6.25khz.

There were a couple gotchya's (for me) in the Icom programming to allow this to work.
I confess to "cheating" with a call to Icom for assistance.

However, after that learning curve, I got it going & it works great.
bc
 

n1oty

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Has anyone been successful with using Kenwood NXDN equipment (in digital) over ICOM iDAS repeaters (IC-FR5000)? I was under the impression they both used the same format but no amount of programming change with either the mobile or the repeater can get the repeater to pass the format.

Unfortunately we built out our system with Kenwood NXDN and with thoughts of linking sites I thought I'd try the cheaper ICOM repeaters but it looks like it could be a no-go.


We have Icom repeaters and I successfully use a Kenwood NX-700H, but it must be narrow digital for use on the Icom repeater in digital. Anyone contemplating a mixed Icom/Kenwood system should seriously consider running digital at 6.25 khz.
 

WayneH

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I haven't done a lot of testing in 6.25 mode since I got it working but how is the voice quality between 12.5 and 6.25? I didn't notice too much of a difference. I haven't deployed the repeaters yet so I may just change them over to 6.25.

The only issue, and it's a small one, is that when running encryption there's a small digital chirp (right before the end of transmission tone when it's enabled) upon dekeying of the mobile.
 

n1oty

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I haven't done a lot of testing in 6.25 mode since I got it working but how is the voice quality between 12.5 and 6.25? I didn't notice too much of a difference. I haven't deployed the repeaters yet so I may just change them over to 6.25.

The only issue, and it's a small one, is that when running encryption there's a small digital chirp (right before the end of transmission tone when it's enabled) upon dekeying of the mobile.


Since we are using this equipment in the ham band, encryption issues cannot be evaluated. We have not been able to compare 12.5 to 6.25 because I am the only person in the group who has a Kenwood Nexedge radio. Everything else is Icom, repeaters and other users radios. None of that can be made to go 12.5.

Some iDAS/Nexedge users have reported on Batlabs that audio quality is similar between 6.25 and 12.5.
 

ElroyJetson

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Actually, it IS legal to use encryption on the amateur bands PROVIDED that you publish the encryption key data. Publishing the key removes the privacy issue.


Kenwood Nexedge does work fine on an Icom IDAS repeater. My shop has an IDAS repeater operating for test purposes and Nexedge equipment has been used on it. No problem.


Elroy
 

n1das

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Since we are using this equipment in the ham band, encryption issues cannot be evaluated. We have not been able to compare 12.5 to 6.25 because I am the only person in the group who has a Kenwood Nexedge radio. Everything else is Icom, repeaters and other users radios. None of that can be made to go 12.5.

Some iDAS/Nexedge users have reported on Batlabs that audio quality is similar between 6.25 and 12.5.

I've done some audio tests in 12.5k mode and 6.25k mode on my Kenwood NX-300 portables. There is NO DIFFERENCE detectable in digital audio quality!!!! If there are any small differences between 6.25k and 12.5k digital modes, my ears can't detect them.

As for digital audio quality in clear vs. encrypted mode, I have done some tests on a non-ham (Part 90)system that I'm a user on. We have found there's a very small loss in audio quality in encrypt mode vs. clear mode. It is hard to detect but noticeable if you listen very carefully. The difference is small enough that it's not worth worrying about. We also found that when the received signal strength gets down in the noise where it starts to "go digital" encryption mode suffers a little more than clear mode does. We found it a little strange given it's all digital whether in clear or encrypt mode. My gut feeling is the encryption algorithm doesn't handle individual bit errors very well. The effect is the received audio garbles up a little more easily than clear mode does. It's subtle but noticeable. So if your received signal strength is right on the fringe and bumping up against the digital brick wall, you're best off to use clear mode only.

N1OTY, good to meet up with you again at Boxboro! I am planning to be at NEAR-fest in October.
 

n1oty

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I've done some audio tests in 12.5k mode and 6.25k mode on my Kenwood NX-300 portables. There is NO DIFFERENCE detectable in digital audio quality!!!! If there are any small differences between 6.25k and 12.5k digital modes, my ears can't detect them.

As for digital audio quality in clear vs. encrypted mode, I have done some tests on a non-ham (Part 90)system that I'm a user on. We have found there's a very small loss in audio quality in encrypt mode vs. clear mode. It is hard to detect but noticeable if you listen very carefully. The difference is small enough that it's not worth worrying about. We also found that when the received signal strength gets down in the noise where it starts to "go digital" encryption mode suffers a little more than clear mode does. We found it a little strange given it's all digital whether in clear or encrypt mode. My gut feeling is the encryption algorithm doesn't handle individual bit errors very well. The effect is the received audio garbles up a little more easily than clear mode does. It's subtle but noticeable. So if your received signal strength is right on the fringe and bumping up against the digital brick wall, you're best off to use clear mode only.

N1OTY, good to meet up with you again at Boxboro! I am planning to be at NEAR-fest in October.


Good to see you too. We will be at Near-Fest and once again we are getting space inside one of the commercial buildings. We just got our additional iDAS VHF repeaters and the linking boards. SE Mass should have a large swath of VHF iDAS/Nexedge activity over the next few months.
 
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