Kenwood NX-5000 Model Number Meaning

[rep254]

Greetings.

I was wondering what the difference between K6 and F6 is for the kenwood nx-5000 model numbers for instance NX-5300-K6 vs NX 5300 -K6? I’m assuming its region based identification but both of those radios would operate on the same frequency range 380-470. Is one newer than the other? Is one only sold to certain customers? I know Europe would be NX5300E and all the models I've bought stateside have a K at the end. would anyone be able to shed some light on this ? I'm just curious.

 

[mmckenna]

I don't know what the F market code is.

The differences are related to the technical requirements in that market. Might be as simple as frequency capability, or may be much more complex.

One big difference to consider is certification of the transmitter. For any use other than amateur radio in the USA, the radio -must- have FCC type certification. A radio from a different market may not have that and therefore would not be legal to use outside the amateur radio bands.

The other big challenge is programming software. Software is often keyed to the market, and having the correct software for the radio will be required. It may be very difficult to get different market software based on your location. So, it become a big support issue.

 

[rep254]

Noted.

One big difference to consider is certification of the transmitter. For any use other than amateur radio in the USA, the radio -must- have FCC type certification. A radio from a different market may not have that and therefore would not be legal to use outside the amateur radio bands.

I bought my portable stateside and on the back it states part 15 compliance. But correct me if I'm wrong, generally the NX-5000 model lines are for professional/first responder use regardless of the region due to the P25 compliance aspect right? So they would have to have the proper FCC certifications in order to comply with the requirements set by the P25 regulatory board and to fit in with the p25 interoperability guides right? I'm by no means a professional and thats my best educated guess based off what I've read.

The only other two things I can think of is on my K version the transceiver was made in Malaysia vs the F version being made in Japan. I know that the federal government sometimes has specific model numbers allocated by manufactures in order to designate their equipment orders from regular civilian applications so could that be a possibility?

Either way, thanks for trying to help satisfy my curiosity.

 

[tweiss3]

I'm not sure the difference either, but I did find this in the feature manual

The number at the end is frequency coverage/keypad notation
VHF (5200) has 2 for standard keypad, 3 for full keypad
UHF (5300) is 2/5 for standard keypad (450-520MHz/380-470MHz) and 3/6 is full keypad (450-520MHz/380-470MHz)

Mine is a F6, I've always wondered with the difference between F and K are.

 

[rep254]

I'm not sure the difference either, but I did find this in the feature manual
View attachment 121206
The number at the end is frequency coverage/keypad notation
VHF (5200) has 2 for standard keypad, 3 for full keypad
UHF (5300) is 2/5 for standard keypad (450-520MHz/380-470MHz) and 3/6 is full keypad (450-520MHz/380-470MHz)

Mine is a F6, I've always wondered with the difference between F and K are.

Interesting. I'm seriously curious if the F would be for the federal market because I found and old ordering document where they have specifically the F designation at the end of some of the part numbers https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_te...RXQXQ_GS-35F-0358M_GS35F0358MAMRADREV2021.PDF

 

[mmckenna]

I bought my portable stateside and on the back it states part 15 compliance.

Part 15 is for the receiver only.

There should be a separate FCC ID on the back of the radio under the battery. That's the one you would be looking for.

But correct me if I'm wrong, generally the NX-5000 model lines are for professional/first responder use regardless of the region due to the P25 compliance aspect right? So they would have to have the proper FCC certifications in order to comply with the requirements set by the P25 regulatory board and to fit in with the p25 interoperability guides right? I'm by no means a professional and thats my best educated guess based off what I've read.

No. The FCC is only looking at the certification of the transmitter and the emissions. Yes, P25 is an emission type, but the FCC does not dictate the P25 CAI. That's done by APCO, a few others, and DHS plays into it also.

The only other two things I can think of is on my K version the transceiver was made in Malaysia vs the F version being made in Japan. I know that the federal government sometimes has specific model numbers allocated by manufactures in order to designate their equipment orders from regular civilian applications so could that be a possibility?

K is North American Market.

I've never seen a radio marked with F, so I'm not sure. @kd4efm might know.

As for federal users, they fall under the NTIA, not the FCC. If you really wanted to dig into it, federal users are not bound by FCC rules, although NTIA and FCC rules are similar, and the two cooperate. There have been stories of radios used by NTIA users that didn't have FCC certification, but I think it's really rare.

Could be that those are specifically NTIA radios for federal users only. Looking at the link it shows:

The Geographic Scope of Contract will be domestic and overseas delivery.​

So, could be that the F market is actually somewhere else in the world.

Would be interesting to know. The NX-5xxx service manuals don't show it, but some of the other Kenwood service manuals do show market codes when it comes to component differences:
L = Scandinavia
K = USA
P = Canada
Y = PX (Far East, Hawaii) - Yes, seems like Hawaii should be under the K market code….
Y = Also shows a AAFES (Europe)
T = England
E= Europe
X = Australia
M = "Other Areas"

 

[mmckenna]

I do see some model numbers on that list that I recognize.

NX-5700HBF is a US market high power VHF RF deck only.

Also, looks like the customer for that list is the USDA Forrestry (yes, they spelled it incorrectly every time)
They would fall under NTIA, not FCC, so the "F" being Federal might hold true.
NTIA allows users to have things like front panel programming for the end users, where the FCC specifically forbids that.

 

[rep254]

There should be a separate FCC ID on the back of the radio under the battery. That's the one you would be looking for.

Would it be a safe assumption that if there's an FCC ID the portable is compliant for uses outside of the amateur realm?

No. The FCC is only looking at the certification of the transmitter and the emissions. Yes, P25 is an emission type, but the FCC does not dictate the P25 CAI. That's done by APCO, a few others, and DHS plays into it also.

Noted. thanks for the clarity. I just assumed because the radio is p25 compliant it would relate to to the FCC certification and vice versa.

Would be interesting to know. The NX-5xxx service manuals don't show it, but some of the other Kenwood service manuals do show market codes when it comes to component differences:

I thought they'd show it as well seeing as it would be useful to know if you bought a unit second hand where it came from. I was hoping Kenwood website would outline the designations and possibly map out the differences between regions but I guess not.

Thank you for all this information. It's definitely satisfied my curiosity.

 

[rep254]

I do see some model numbers on that list that I recognize.

So out of curiosity, would those units fall under NTIA vs the FCC?

 

[mmckenna]

Would it be a safe assumption that if there's an FCC ID the portable is compliant for uses outside of the amdture realm?

The FCC certifies radio transmitters under specific "parts". Radio services fall under different rule parts:
Part 90 - business/public safety
Part 80 - Marine
Part 95 - "Personal Radio Services
etc….
And then there's subparts under that...

You'd have to look up the FCC ID on the specific radio and see what the specific FCC shows it approved under. If you were wanting to follow the FCC rules 100%, the radio would only be legal to use under those specific parts (with the exception of amateur, which does not require type certification on transmitters).

FCC ID Search

www.fcc.gov

I thought they'd show it as well seeing as it would be useful to know if you bought a unit second hand where it came from. I was hoping Kenwood website would outline the designations and possibly map out the differences between regions but I guess not.

Kenwood isn't going to take the time to support non-Kenwood dealers, and supporting used/e-bay radios gets to be quite a burden, and why some dealers won't support customers unless you purchase from them.
Also, the radios are marketed to professional users, and the general assumption is that a professional radio tech isn't going to buy used radios without knowing exactly what they are doing. Again, why some dealers won't support hams, either. (but some do, like kd4emf does….)

 

[mmckenna]

So out of curiosity, would those units fall under NTIA vs the FCC?

You'd have to have the radio in your hand and see the FCC sticker on the bottom.

The part number does match a model that is sold in the USA to non-federal users, so it may be safe to assume it does, but if you wanted to get technical, it does need to have the FCC ID attached to the radio.

 

[tweiss3]

Based on mine, and other photos I have seen, I guess F models are federal, made in Japan to meet the federal requirements, the K models are everything else, made in Malaysia.

 

[mmckenna]

Based on mine, and other photos I have seen, I guess F models are federal, made in Japan to meet the federal requirements, the K models are everything else, made in Malaysia.

That makes sense.

 

[kd4efm]

F means it's a radio done under a grant where nxdn is removed from the radio and basically a p25 capable radio.

Takes place of the tk5x30

 

[mmckenna]

F means it's a radio done under a grant where nxdn is removed from the radio and basically a p25 capable radio.

Takes place of the tk5x30

Thanks, that makes sense, I think. So it ships with P25 conventional activated instead of NXDN?

 

[tweiss3]

Interesting, I didn't get mine direct from Kenwood, but it came with P25 conventional, NXDN Conventional, OTAP for P25, NXDN & DMR plus the factory installed KDW5005AE encryption board and DES 4 keys.

 

[rep254]

F means it's a radio done under a grant where nxdn is removed from the radio and basically a p25 capable radio.

Thanks fro the clarification. I did order it with p25 activated and now this all tracks.

Interesting, I didn't get mine direct from Kenwood, but it came with P25 conventional, NXDN Conventional, OTAP for P25, NXDN & DMR plus the factory installed KDW5005AE encryption board and DES 4 keys.

Is it standard for KDW5005AE to come activated form the factory? I thought it was odd because mine was set to use the SCM module as opposed to the default DES keys. All the other NX's I've bought usually come with DES 4 keys activated instead of the SCM.

 

[kd4efm]

Thanks for the clarification. I did order it with p25 activated and now this all tracks.
Is it standard for KDW5005AE to come activated form the factory? I thought it was odd because mine was set to use the SCM module as opposed to the default DES keys. All the other NX's I've bought usually come with DES 4 keys activated instead of the SCM.

THE SCM by default, out of the box is checked. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE AE30 or AE31 is installed!!!
That is an ordered item, and along with it, there is paperwork that has to be filled out for this also. We dealers can install it for a customer
if they so choose, or we can order a labor code to have it done by Kenwood. (extra charges)

 

[rep254]

THE SCM by default, out of the box is checked. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THE AE30 or AE31 is installed!!!
That is an ordered item, and along with it, there is paperwork that has to be filled out for this also. We dealers can install it for a customer
if they so choose, or we can order a labor code to have it done by Kenwood. (extra charges)

I'm assuming the paperwork has to do with with with the export controls and justification for needing the SCM and has to be filled out regardless of labor code/dealer installation?

Anyway. Thank you all for the insight!

 

[CAR-224A]

I'm assuming the paperwork has to do with with with the export controls and justification for needing the SCM and has to be filled out regardless of labor code/dealer installation?

Yes, that’s correct. It’s asks for contact info and intended use of the SCM.

e.g. law enforcement, security, operations, Kenwood dealer demo, etc.