Kenwood NXDN Radio: 'Switching' the Unit ID

[racingfan360]

Here's one for the experts on this Forum, it's got me foxed....

I've been analyzing some voice traffic from a Kenwood NXDN conventional system (It's an auto racing team). They use NX300's, it's a single car 2-driver team, using a single channel repeater system, in NXDN-VN mode.

Here's the odd thing....when they change drivers at the pit stop, the Unit ID for the radio in the car switches from one UID to another. Thing is, I didn't think it was possible to change the UID on the fly like this as I thought it was programmed into the unit itself, or am I wrong? Any ideas? It's quite common for race teams to have a Driver-ID transponder or RFID switch that they use to identify to timing and scoring who's onboard, but I've never come across a way of switching an NX300's Unit ID back and forth.

 

[ka3aaa]

apparently the radios are set up for "over the air programming" and can be changed anytime they want just by touching a button which is fairly common these days.

 

[tweiss3]

Radio stays with driver? Then the radio comes out with driver, and new radio goes in with new driver.

I've never used the KPG-111 software, but I know on the D3N and D1N you can make multiple NXDN personalities, and you could bump zones/channel to the next driver's ID.

 

[racingfan360]

I should have added the same radio stays with the car (it would be easy to explain if the radio unit physically swapped over as well). OTAR is I guess possible, but perhaps a bit elaborate (?)...I had imagined it might be connected to a simple physical switch in the vehicle itself.

 

[Jay911]

I have little experience with NXDN but in other digital formats, i.e. P25, I can have a different 'personality' which includes the radio ID and simply switch channels or zones/banks to jump to that new personality. So maybe zone A is Ricky Bobby and zone B is Cole Trickle, and the programming is completely different in each zone/personality.

 

[kd4efm]

So, to chime in and explain how they do it, the 300 is capable of multi system, which validates change zone, got new OTAA, and UID. My 300 is like that because I have 4 nxdn trunk systems in it.

So, yes, if radio is attached to said car, but drivers change out, then radio zone follows said driver.

Now you know.

 

[kd4efm]

Oh, the nx-x00 is capable of up to 8 multi-system

 

[tweiss3]

So, to chime in and explain how they do it, the 300 is capable of multi system, which validates change zone, got new OTAA, and UID. My 300 is like that because I have 4 nxdn trunk systems in it.

So, yes, if radio is attached to said car, but drivers change out, then radio zone follows said driver.

Now you know.

How does that work if it's the same system/key being reused? The help only says the absence of a key automatically selects single system.

 

[a417]

Sounds like what we did with one particular chief officer. Multiple official positions (separate agencies who worked together well), and he'd just change the channel on his issued radio. On one channel personality used ID AAAA, second channel personality used ID BBBB.

Granted it is now considerably more complex than changing the channel on a CDM1250, but this is what it sounds like they might be doing. Change the driver, change the radio channel to one for that person.

 

[racingfan360]

Thanks. I'd assume a channel or zone change is fairly straightforward, in much the same way as a multi-PTT headset achieves this function. Multi system looks interesting. But I'm still struggling to figure out how to swap Unit ID on a conventional setup (btw I am 100% sure it is conventional , not trunked).

 

[a417]

Thanks. I'd assume a channel or zone change is fairly straightforward, in much the same way as a multi-PTT headset achieves this function. Multi system looks interesting. But I'm still struggling to figure out how to swap Unit ID on a conventional setup (btw I am 100% sure it is conventional , not trunked).

On an old system like MDC 1200, it's as simple as assigning a different MDC ID to each channel. Change channel, change transmitted MDC ID.

I could be way off, but that 's what it sounds like, and that's what we did.

 

[racingfan360]

On an old system like MDC 1200, it's as simple as assigning a different MDC ID to each channel. Change channel, change transmitted MDC ID.
I could be way off, but that 's what it sounds like, and that's what we did.

Don't disgaree but that doesn't explain multiple NXDN UID's transmitted from the same transceiver on a conventional system.

 

[a417]

Don't disgaree but that doesn't explain multiple NXDN UID's transmitted from the same transceiver on a conventional system.

You sure?

Can one of the experts (ahem, @kd4efm) confirm if the "NXDN ID Signalling" can be changed between personalities? I am not sure if the OP is seeing the radios UID or if he is seeing FleetSync-like signalling (which IIRC could be changed on a per channel basis) on the channels.

I have a feeling that the racing team is simply changing a channel on the radio when the drivers swap, very much like @tweiss3 mentioned.

 

[BMDaug]

I have a small fleet of Harris P25 conventional radios and each system in the personality (code plug) has a UID… so I can make 10 systems that reference the same frequency set but have different UIDs, use different Ø keys etc.

So in this case, system one is named “driver one” with UID 1001, system two is named “driver two” with UID 1002 and so on… but I only have to enter the frequency set once. Changing systems is just a single button press away so a driver change is just arrow up to move from system “driver one” to system “driver two”…

-B

 

[Echo4Thirty]

NXDN handles changing IDs in a radio differently than other formats. I can have tons of UIDs in my APX, but only one NXDN ID in my NX-300. It used to be the UID was global to the radio, not the systems in it. It sounds like newer radios can have multiple IDs per radio, but perhaps still only one per system (conventional being a system?) i too am interested to learn more about having multiple NXDN IDs in one radio.

 

[BMDaug]

NXDN handles changing IDs in a radio differently than other formats. I can have tons of UIDs in my APX, but only one NXDN ID in my NX-300. It used to be the UID was global to the radio, not the systems in it. It sounds like newer radios can have multiple IDs per radio, but perhaps still only one per system (conventional being a system?) i too am interested to learn more about having multiple NXDN IDs in one radio.

Wow, that’s really interesting… seems like sort of an oversight actually. What if you use multiple physical systems? Do sysadmins have to get together and come up with a shared database of UIDs? That’s seems like a huge pita…

-B

 

[Echo4Thirty]

On the older radios (Like my NX-300) If i had two different TRSs in it and needed to have a different UID, i had to keep two seperate codeplugs and dump the one in i needed to use.

I used to think it was an oversight, but DMR/NXDN were really designed to be business radio systems. I doubt a casino would care that they could not use their NX ID on another business's system. The issue only arose for techs who maintain multiple systems and when they started to market the radios for public safety usage.

 

[racingfan360]

Anyone have an NX3300 that could check if multiple UIDs can be added....as Echo4Thirty points out I don't think this is possible to swap on an nx300 in conventional without reprogramming.

 

[tweiss3]

Anyone have an NX3300 that could check if multiple UIDs can be added....as Echo4Thirty points out I don't think this is possible to swap on an nx300 in conventional without reprogramming.

Yes, it is. I don't have a NX3300, but I do have D3N, and you can make multiple NXDN conventional personalities without keys.

 

[racingfan360]

Yes, it is.

Which part are you saying yes to tweiss3? Are you saying you can add multiple UID's to a NX3300 [using D3N software] or saying yes that you can swap the UIDs on an NX300 in conventional mode without reprogramming it?