• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

Kenwood ProTalk TK-3402U16P

Status
Not open for further replies.

simbob

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
9
I'm a noob and just received this Kenwood ProTalk TK-3402U16P radio. In an effort to save some money, I bought this model radio from a pawn shop on eBay. It was sold as "new", and from what I can tell it is new, as it was in the box, wrapped in plastic, etc. and no sign of ever having been handled, but I'm getting some strange indications I which I'd like help with if anyone has experience with this radio.

After charging the battery, I turned the radio on and cycled through all of the channels. The radio verbalizes the channel number. When I select channels 8-12 and 14-16, the LED alternates between Orange/Red, which the manual indicates that means "Frequency not programmed". The speaker emits a constant tone when these channels are tuned, which may be normal. All other channels 1-7 and 13 have the LED off, unless I key the mike, and then the LED goes red, which signifies transmit according to the manual, which I assume is OK.

I was under the impression, according to the attached document, that all 16 channels were supposed to be programmed to some default frequencies. So, I saw there is an "ALL RESET MODE" near the bottom of the 2nd page, and when I tried holding down all 3 buttons while powering the radio on, nothing happens. I don't get the orange LED nor voice prompts. I tried some of the other things in that manual, like setting a frequency, but nothing works.

I have the programming cable on order, and I have the Kenwood programming software KPG-159DN v1.50 on hand, so once the cable comes in, I'll try to see if I can set up the frequencies as needed.

Any help would be appreciated.
 

Attachments

MTS2000des

Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2008
Messages
3,605
Location
Cobb County, GA Stadium Crime Zone
Being that the radio was bought off eBay from a pawn shop and not an authorized Kenwood dealer, there is no telling where it came from originally. It very well could have been ordered for a customer and reprogrammed to their specs, maybe they didn't need/want all channels programmed. Most shops usually will repack a radio after programming if it's going to be sent to a customer.

You'll have to hold off until you get your cable and software to verify how they are setup. Little hint: always READ your radio first and SAVE the file before making any changes.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
14,747
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
What's the full model number off the back of the radio? A photo might be helpful.

There could be a lot of things going on here, and figuring out exactly what you have will help. There is a TK-3402 non-ProTalk version that isn't a preprogrammed radio. Could be that is what you have. If it is, how it's programmed now could make sense. If the owner only had access to a few channels, they may have purposely programmed it that way.

If it is the ProTalk version, it's entirely possible that those channels that appear not to work have been set up that way using the button programming procedure. (List = 0 setting for the channels).

I don't recall the specifics, and would have to do some digging, but if it is the ProTalk, the KPG-159 may not work for you.
 

simbob

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
9
It is a "Kenwood ProTalk TK-3402U16P". All of this is written on the outside cover. Under the battery, it reads as follows on 3 separate lines:
TK-3402U
-K
TK-3402U 019048 202338

Since it says "ProTalk" on the cover, I will assume it is. As I stated in the 1st post, none of the "button-pressing then power-on" setup procedures listed in the document I attached work. If as you say the KPG-159 s/w may not work for the ProTalk version, then what will? I've installed the KPG-159 s/w, and it does say it covers the following models: "TK-2402V/3402U LMR, TK-2402V/3402U Protalk".

Thanks for looking into it!
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
14,747
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
The software should work, if the radio has a firmware version that the software supports.

Radios can be recased, so don't necessarily rely on the outside cover.


Should be able to sort all that out when you get your cable.
 

simbob

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
9
One thing that concerns me with this radio I bought is that I get no background noise at all on any channel. Shouldn't there be some background noise with the volume turned up, or is that a characteristic of UHF? Or does it mean that squelch is turned on? According to the owner's manual, squelch off can be assigned to one of the side buttons, but that has to be programmed. Just give me a squelch knob.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
14,747
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
Not unusual at all.

That's one of the differences between a commercial radio and an amateur/hobby radio.

On the commercial radio side, it's very common to run some sort of coded squelch. Either CTCSS (continuous tone coded squelch system) or DCS (digital coded squelch system - not to be confused with digital radio).
When you are running a coded squelch, you don't need a squelch knob on the radio. The radio will recognize the tone/dcs on the carrier and open the audio on the radio. When the tone/dcs isn't there, it won't open. That makes it possible for multiple users to share one frequency (or frequency pair if it's a repeater). Different groups can use the same frequency as other users, and use the CTCSS or DCS to make it so others don't have to hear their traffic. It was a popular way of having multiple groups use a common repeater, often a radio shop who sold repeater access.

Since it's important to not accidentally transmit over other users, it was/is common to assign a button (often above or below the PTT button) to deactivate the tone/code squelch so you could easily check to see if the frequency was in use by another group.
That button can often be set up two different ways on some radios:
- defeat the tone/digital squelch but keep the carrier squelch closed. This works and prevents users from hearing a loud static burst.
- defeating the tone/digital squelch AND opening the carrier squelch. This is probably the function you are looking for.

Finding an actual squelch knob on a commercial/public safety grade radio is nearly impossible with anything made in this century. If you want a physical squelch knob, you'd be looking for one of the cheap Chinese radios or an amateur radio.
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
14,747
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
I should add that different radio manufacturers use different terminology for CTCSS and DCS:

Motorola uses:
PL = Private Line = CTCSS
DPL = Digital Private Line = DCS

Kenwood uses:
QT = Quite Tone = CTCSS
DQT = Digital Quite Tone = DCS

All are the same thing and interoperable between brands.
 

simbob

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
9
That starts to explain a bit why the Kenwood KPG-159DN software has QT/DQT Decode and Encode fields in the Channel Information page. If I choose model TK-3402U, than all fields are cleared. But if I choose the TK-3402U Protalk, then all fields are initialized.

The Protalk model doesn't let me choose the frequencies I want to use - I can only select ones from a pre-selected list. So, I will be trying to use the non-Protalk setup, so I can enter the frequencies I want to use, but then what about the QT/DQT Decode / Encode values? I have no idea what to use there.

Once I get the cable, I'll at lease see if I can set these channels up with the frequencies I need.
 

simbob

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
9
Good news. I received the programming cable today. I didn't have to install the driver that came with it. Just plugged it in, connected to the radio, opened the KPG159DN software, selected COM 4 port from within the software setup (which was the only available option). Did a transceiver read and got exactly what I expected as far as frequencies 1-7 & 13 were programmed, and the others were not. Opened the file I had built with my 16 new frequencies, sent the data, and it only took a few seconds, and now all 16 channels work the same, in that the LED goes RED for each selection, and the channel number is verbalized for each channel when changing it. Also I am able to read the data from the transceiver, and it populates the table with all the frequencies I had written.

So, now my question is how to test the radio to see if it actually works. I bought the radio to communicate with fellow motorcycle riders, but none of those people live around me. Is there perhaps a UHF test frequency I can use to get someone to answer back? I believe the radio can cover the range from 450-470 MHz.

The UHF Wiki says:
450–470 MHz: UHF business band, General Mobile Radio Service, and Family Radio Service 2-way "walkie-talkies", public safety

Thanks for the help!

Bob in Memphis
 

simbob

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
9
QT/DQT Decode/Encode?

Another question (besides how to test the radio) is how and why I should program the QT/DQT entries.

The first 3 frequencies looked like this originally:
No. RX Frequency TX Frequency QT/DQT Decode QT/DQT Encode Power Wide/Narrow Scan Add Repeater Mode
1 (01) 464.50000 (01) 464.50000 (001) 67.0 (001) 67.0 High Narrow Yes No
2 (01) 464.50000 (01) 464.50000 (004) 77.0 (004) 77.0 High Narrow Yes No
3 (01) 464.50000 (01) 464.50000 (008) 88.5 (008) 88.5 High Narrow Yes No

And now the 1st 3 look like this, i.e with QT/DQT set to "none":
No. RX Frequency TX Frequency QT/DQT Decode QT/DQT Encode Power Wide/Narrow Scan Add Optional Signaling
1 462.56250 462.56250 None None High Narrow Yes None
2 462.58750 462.58750 None None High Narrow Yes None
3 462.61250 462.61250 None None High Narrow Yes None

So, do I need something in the QT/DQT section? From what I've been able to gather by reading what I can on this topic, I would only need to use the QT/DQT settings if I were trying to communicate with a particular group of people that had their radio set up with the same QT/DQT codes, and isolate others using a different code. Is that correct? So if everyone in my MC group has none selected, then I don't need to worry about this?
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
14,747
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
Interesting…
I had a guy at work who's an avid motorcycle rider call me about his Kenwood radio. His old one was damaged and he bought a new TK-3400. We were talking about getting it programmed. In fact for a moment, I thought you might be him. But, we're not in Memphis….


If you have another FRS/GMRS radio, even the cheap ones, you can program in some of the GMRS channels, 462.550, for example and give it a try.
There is no "test" channel, and the possibility of randomly making a contact with someone else is slim to none. You need two radios to test it.
 

simbob

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
9
Yeah, I figured as much. So now I'll be on the hunt for someone local with a UHF radio. BTW, I was also able to program the side buttons. I programmed the top one to Scan all freq when pressed - LED blinks green when active. Pressing again turns that mode off. And the 2nd button is set to turn off squelch, so I can hear the radio static - makes me feel like it actually works :) Making progress. Thanks to all for the help!
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
14,747
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
And the 2nd button is set to turn off squelch, so I can hear the radio static - makes me feel like it actually works :)
Yeah, that's one of those comfort things. I like the radio to make some noise now and then. Also handy if you have a headset in your helmet. Lets you set the volume properly, that way you aren't surprised.
 

simbob

Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2017
Messages
9
I have my Kenwood radio mounted in my MC tankbag now, and I bought a Larsen SB45012 UHF Stealth Antenna to mount on the bike.
https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=182_840_400&products_id=601

I know there's some magic to antennas, so I would like to know if it's OK to mount the antenna horizontally, or does it need to be mounted vertically (tough to do on a bike). What would be the downside to mounting it horizontally?

Another question is that I have it mounted behind the bike tupperware (plastic fairing material) - will that be an issue for signal strength, or does it need to be mounted outside for best results?
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
14,747
Location
SNCZCA01DS0
I have my Kenwood radio mounted in my MC tankbag now, and I bought a Larsen SB45012 UHF Stealth Antenna to mount on the bike.
https://www.ruggedradios.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=182_840_400&products_id=601

I know there's some magic to antennas, so I would like to know if it's OK to mount the antenna horizontally, or does it need to be mounted vertically (tough to do on a bike). What would be the downside to mounting it horizontally?
Well, not really magic, it's all science.

Radios work better when the antenna polarization is the same. In other words, you'll get more signal to the other radio (and vice/versa) if both antennas are in the same position.
You really do want your antenna vertical, since that's probably what everyone else is using.

Another question is that I have it mounted behind the bike tupperware (plastic fairing material) - will that be an issue for signal strength, or does it need to be mounted outside for best results?
Depends on what the plastic is coated with. I know a co-workers bike is coated in metallic flake paint. The metallic paint can absorb RF energy and reduce performance.
If it's just bare plastic, or not coated with metallic paint, it probably won't be an issue.

However, you do want the antenna out in the open, away from metal, if you can.
Having it too close to the metal frame can reflect RF energy back to the radio, which can create issues.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top